Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
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08-04-2011, 08:19 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(08-04-2011 07:31 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  No.

Omniscience precludes free will.

No it doesn't. Did you read my posts explaining?
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08-04-2011, 08:53 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Quote:we still ate from it
If the kid eats your cookie, will you damn his/her every descendant?
Quote:So, do you understand now how an omniscient and omnipotent God can allow us free will?
Ummm, no. If you would already know that the kid is going to eat your cookies, but you don't want to prevent it, would you still get mad because s/he ate them?

Free will + omniscience means knowing everything while not actually knowing everything.
Knowing everything + not knowing everything = explosion.

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
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08-04-2011, 10:25 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Hey BEG,

Let's say, for sake of argument, that your god Yahweh indeed exists. My question to you is, knowing what we know about the character of Yahweh, why is he worthy of your worship?

Is it simply that the idea that you get to spend some quality time in your afterlife with a dude that makes Hitler and Stalin look like Teddy Bears or is it your inherent fear of a scary fiery place?

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08-04-2011, 10:25 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(08-04-2011 08:19 AM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  
(08-04-2011 07:31 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  No.

Omniscience precludes free will.

No it doesn't. Did you read my posts explaining?

Yes.

BlackEyedGhost Wrote:I can know what's going to happen without making it happen.

This is true, but it doesn't change the fact that omniscience precludes free will. Knowing that something is going to happen without making it happen is fine; jumping from "I can know something will happen without making it happen" to "thus omniscience does not preclude free will" is a non sequitur.

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08-04-2011, 04:10 PM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2011 04:18 PM by BlackEyedGhost.)
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
@Kikko When it comes to God and us, He gave us only 1 command. We disobeyed. God requires perfection, so 1 offence is all it takes. The logical thing to do with an imperfection is to get rid of it. Thus death. The reason for hell is to give us reason to change. If we die and that's it, then so what? But if we die and we're judged, then we have something to think about. Similar to diciplining a child. Now we're not only imperfect, we have good in us too, so it wouldn't be right for a perfect God to destroy the entirety of us. So in order to separate us from our imperfections (sin), God had to kill us and not kill us. The solution, God sends someone to conquer death so that we can die and be raised again, sinless. Thus Jesus died for us (having lived a sinless life) and raised again from the dead because not having sinned, He couldn't be kept by death. Thus He can also raise us back to life. Anyways, same doctrine again said in a different way.
(08-04-2011 10:25 AM)Seasbury Wrote:  Hey BEG,

Let's say, for sake of argument, that your god Yahweh indeed exists. My question to you is, knowing what we know about the character of Yahweh, why is he worthy of your worship?

Is it simply that the idea that you get to spend some quality time in your afterlife with a dude that makes Hitler and Stalin look like Teddy Bears or is it your inherent fear of a scary fiery place?

Worship is respect on crack basically. The same reason you would respect any one person on Earth is a reason to respect God. Most (if not all) reasons to respect people take form in God. He's perfect and proves it through the life of Jesus. It's not out of fear or magnitude that makes me worship God, it's love.
(08-04-2011 10:25 AM)Seasbury Wrote:  Hey BEG,

Let's say, for sake of argument, that your god Yahweh indeed exists. My question to you is, knowing what we know about the character of Yahweh, why is he worthy of your worship?

Is it simply that the idea that you get to spend some quality time in your afterlife with a dude that makes Hitler and Stalin look like Teddy Bears or is it your inherent fear of a scary fiery place?

Worship is respect on crack basically. The same reason you would respect any one person on Earth is a reason to respect God. Most (if not all) reasons to respect people take form in God. He's perfect and proves it through the life of Jesus. It's not out of fear or magnitude that makes me worship God, it's love.
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09-04-2011, 03:59 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Omniscience and free will cannot coincide. If you know what I'm going to do before I do it, then all that is left is the illusion of free will. Either God knew that we would eat from the tree that he purposely placed there (he is malevolent) or he didn't know because Adam could have chosen either way (he isn't omniscient).

If God exists, he is a prick and not worth acknowledging. Buddha trumps him on morals anyways.

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09-04-2011, 04:06 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Why believe in the Christian god and not any of the others? Can the billions of Hindu's and Muslims be liars too?
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09-04-2011, 04:26 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Interesting thread. Nice to see some normal Christians on this site, trying to have a normal conversation with "us". So, the reason I don't believe is probably because I read and watch a lot, so I've seen how many times did the church lie to me, then I started questioning everything and I came to conclusion that they have been lying to all of us for 2000 years. Then I found out how the Bible was made, the famous 325 A.D. council... My point is, I believed until I was blindly following what they were saying, as soon as I scratched the surface, I realized that something was terribly wrong. And than I gathered historical facts from different sources, watched a lot of documentaries and now I think the religions are responsible for a lot more bad than good in this world.

My question for Bible believers is: how can you believe and follow the Bible, when it is known fact that the Bible we know is the one that was made by a Roman Emperor Constantine in 325 AD, when they chose the Gospels they like, and burned the rest, so we are left with 4 Gospels, and about 80 of them is lost and forgotten?

And if you don't believe me, or the documentaries I watch, ask your local priest, I would suggest roman-catholic, at least they have a tradition of 2000 years, they are not some new-born religion. They will confirm the fact that the Bible was edited on that council and a lot of Gospels were lost. Also you can search different history books related to Roman Empire, or the Emperor Constantine.

What I'm trying to say is, if this ONE fact is correct, and the Bible was edited to make the Emperor politically stronger, why even bother to search around, if the BIBLE is not the Bible, if it was the Word of God at some time, it was edited my MAN, a power hungry man who took religion for his political purposes so it is NOT the Word of God anymore.

It was then that I opened my eyes and I started to train myself to stop believing in stories I heard only because it was a tradition. The more I educated myself about history and science, the more it all came together. The point is to believe in something because YOU believe in it, not because you were raised to believe in it. If you were born in China, you would be a Buddhist, if you are from middle-east, you would be Muslim. So you are not a true believer, you were raised to believe in one of the stories. That is the reason a lot of people will say that religions are actually brain-washing.

This was an example, didn't mean to offend you, or call you a brain-washed because I don't know how or why you believe.

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09-04-2011, 06:39 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Good post^^^^^^^^^^

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09-04-2011, 07:49 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(08-04-2011 04:10 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  @Kikko When it comes to God and us, He gave us only 1 command. We disobeyed. God requires perfection, so 1 offence is all it takes. The logical thing to do with an imperfection is to get rid of it. Thus death. The reason for hell is to give us reason to change. If we die and that's it, then so what? But if we die and we're judged, then we have something to think about. Similar to diciplining a child. Now we're not only imperfect, we have good in us too, so it wouldn't be right for a perfect God to destroy the entirety of us. So in order to separate us from our imperfections (sin), God had to kill us and not kill us. The solution, God sends someone to conquer death so that we can die and be raised again, sinless. Thus Jesus died for us (having lived a sinless life) and raised again from the dead because not having sinned, He couldn't be kept by death. Thus He can also raise us back to life. Anyways, same doctrine again said in a different way.

So why didn't he make us perfect to begin with? Yahweh is supposed to be able to do anything right, so why couldn't he have just forgiven without adding some prerequisite, hes all loving isn't he?
Are you saying christians are perfect and without evil? would you like a list of people that prove otherwise, both from the media and my personal life?

Everybody get ready for the "those aren't real christian's" line.

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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