Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
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11-04-2011, 07:18 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(11-04-2011 06:33 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/bible_atrocities.html

Nuff said.

There are many points I need to make before all of those will make sense morally. First, if God created us, is it morally wrong to destroy us?
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11-04-2011, 07:20 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Is it morally wrong for me to kill my child?

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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11-04-2011, 07:58 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(11-04-2011 07:20 PM)UnderTheMicroscope Wrote:  Is it morally wrong for me to kill my child?

Not the same. God created us. He's higher than us in the same way we're higher than the things we own. If you build somthing, you have the right to take it back apart.
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11-04-2011, 08:01 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
How isn't it the same?

So if a scientist makes an artificial intelligence that can think of its own accord, and evolve its programming and learn based on what stimulus it has does the scientist still get to destroy it?

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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11-04-2011, 08:54 PM (This post was last modified: 11-04-2011 08:59 PM by DeepThought.)
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(11-04-2011 07:18 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  There are many points I need to make before all of those will make sense morally. First, if God created us, is it morally wrong to destroy us?
Umm, Just based on the topic of the thread I think your spinning off into a tangent here. Who cares about whether a 'god' is moral if it destroys the sentient life which it creates.

Some Christian's like to dabble in the fantasy world and toy with ideas that can neither be proven or disproved. It's their comfortable playground, a refuge. The realm of the hypothetical. None of that stuff is covered in scriptures so anything anyone comes up with is purely made up.
If the scriptures weren't so vague and ambiguous when it comes to god there wouldn't be as many believers today.

I have looked around as hard as I can and I see no reason to believe in any god, certainly not any of the Gods mentioned in religious scriptures.
[Image: offering-plate.jpg]
There is no need to donate 10% of my monthly income to any church to make a the pastor fat and rich.

I look at religion and it sickens me. It's absolutely disgusting. When I see how it affects peoples lives, how it affected my life, how it meddles with politics and children's minds.
[Image: palestinianchildabuse071119-tm.jpg?w=350&h=350]

The low down con artist tactics and group psychology used.. It's enough to make me puke.
[Image: robert_tilton-false_prophet.jpg]

Mr Black, any attempt by you to sell/advertise your religion will only be met with my contempt. Debating religion is 100% fine. Just don't cross the line.. And I think every now and then your stray awfully close if not over that line.

No the above doesn't mean I would censor/block you since i'm not a creationist and I don't have any problems justifying my position. Just don't quote John 3:16 at me or it's equivalents and we'll be fine. That will help keep the conversation pleasant! Smile
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11-04-2011, 08:57 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(11-04-2011 07:58 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  
(11-04-2011 07:20 PM)UnderTheMicroscope Wrote:  Is it morally wrong for me to kill my child?

Not the same. God created us. He's higher than us in the same way we're higher than the things we own. If you build somthing, you have the right to take it back apart.

Actually, that's incorrect. As an aspiring engineer, I have no right to go through a take apart something that I've created, unless it is for personal use. If I build something for someone, and later on they fire me, I can't go back and tell them "It's my right to take it apart!"

I also am confused as to how it isn't the same, in the Bible we're considered "God's children" not "God's toy".

If you're argument is "God is God, he can do whatever he wants," you might want to seriously reconsider following Yahweh. That line of thinking can (and has) lead to some very dangerous situations.

Of all the ideas put forth by science, it is the principle of Superposition that can undo any power of the gods. For the accumulation of smaller actions has the ability to create, destroy, and move the world.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." -W. E. Henley
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11-04-2011, 09:14 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(11-04-2011 08:01 PM)UnderTheMicroscope Wrote:  How isn't it the same?

So if a scientist makes an artificial intelligence that can think of its own accord, and evolve its programming and learn based on what stimulus it has does the scientist still get to destroy it?

You can't bring a child back to life. God can. And I see no reason why the scientist couldn't so long as he backs up the software so that it's possible to bring it back.
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11-04-2011, 09:16 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
A doctor may be able to bring a man back to life, can he then say he has the right to kill him just because he can bring him back?
I wish I remember what it was called but there was a book I was reading a few years back that touched a bit on the importance of the duty of care between creator and creation

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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11-04-2011, 09:45 PM (This post was last modified: 11-04-2011 10:35 PM by BlackEyedGhost.)
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
@GodVirusDeleted All these ideas are intertwined, so some tangents are needed in order to form the big picture. Buildings are built brick by brick so to speak. Also, the original topic was simply meant to be a conversation starter, so I'm not too worried about staying on topic. What you said about the hypothetical is very vague, so I don't know exactly how to answer that. The scriptures are only vague to those who don't make a point to try to understand them. In some cases it's very straight foreward, in other cases it is fairly vague and difficult to understand. The idea behind giving to the offering is to give towards what you agree to be God's will. Many churches don't know what God's will really is and have corrupted this meaning. However, the church I attend I know for a fact both what it's spending the money on and that those things are things God would want. I'll continue in a separate post.
@GodVirusDeleted It is sickening how religion is used. Things like radical Islam using it for war and so forth. However, you can't discount all religion based on examples. Just because one religion says to kill the infadel or whatever doesn't mean they all do. Just because religious people do stupid things doesn't mean there religion told them to even when they think it did. I'm not trying to sell my religion, I'm trying to educate people about what it is. This may seem like I'm trying to sell it, but no matter what you call it, I can't make you buy it or believe it or anything. What you choose to believe is up to you. I won't quote anything like that unless it's to make a point and not to try to get people to believe. Besides, most here probably already know that verse anyways.
@Glaucus God made everything for Himself, so your point with the employer is irrelevant. God does call us things like tools in the Bible. He told Babylon (I think it's Babylon) that they are a mighty axe in His hand. He says that authorities are His servants (or slaves). Throughout the Bible, God is the authority whether or not the people accept it and He uses them how He wants. We're called God's children because God loves us like a parent loves their child. And the punishment of death is also a way of diciplining us like children. In this situation "because He's God" does work, but as you said it has lead to some very bad situations. When it comes to things people do, it's important to be wary of that answer, but that's not what I was talking about. basically saying God can do what He wants is theistic way of saying stuff happens.
(11-04-2011 09:16 PM)UnderTheMicroscope Wrote:  A doctor may be able to bring a man back to life, can he then say he has the right to kill him just because he can bring him back?
I wish I remember what it was called but there was a book I was reading a few years back that touched a bit on the importance of the duty of care between creator and creation

Lol, a doctor can't guarantee that he'll be able to bring someone back to life. But even if he did, he didn't create that person to start with. As for care, God does greatly care about us. The punishment of death is a way He diciplines us to teach us. If He left us without punishment He'd be enabling us.
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11-04-2011, 11:23 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(11-04-2011 09:45 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  The scriptures are only vague to those who don't make a point to try to understand them. In some cases it's very straight foreward, in other cases it is fairly vague and difficult to understand.
If you look when said that I was primarily commenting on the the parts of the scripture referencing God and the motives and reasoning. The bible doesn't delve into the philosophy and reasoning behind things. Especially the parts of the bible describing God. Any references related to this are all metaphor and don't actually give you anything solid to go on.

That is the main reason why talking about the actions and intentions of a god like Yahweh is like having a sword fight with a cloud.. I don't see the point of debating on that topic. How can it go anywhere?
The foundation of that topic (that the god of the bible exists) needs to be addressed first..
Show that the Christian world view is valid first before trying to show a hypothetical god is justified in it's actions and intent. I think that is a logical order to do things.

Even if I grant you your hypothetical argument I would be hard pressed to justify all the twisted perversions in the bible. It would take allot of fancy thinking and mental gymnastics. I think people that want to jump through all those hoops are taking a 2000year old collection of desert scribblings WAY too seriously!

You generally find that once a religion nails down the characteristics of a god it becomes a nail in the coffin. E.g. Zeus and Thor. They had actual places where they lived though they were places out of reach by men at that time. They had a set of physical attributes, abilities, and limits etc..

The bible thrives on ambiguity in this area. Why else do theists passionately disagree with each other on these topics?

I'm not adding this video to be harsh, mainly just to highlight the some of the stupid parts of the bible in a funny way.




What sort of supremely intelligent creator being wanting a personal relationship with us would spend this much time talking about feces? It's absurd! The bible is a joke. Is that really all Christians have to go on?

How a being capable of creating galaxies would spend time talking about feces like that and forget to impart any actual useful knowledge. It's not very believable. Sorry...

I can think of thousands of more useful things to put in a bible other than feces. Though i'm not claiming to be a prophet of any god..
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