Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
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13-04-2011, 03:54 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(13-04-2011 03:26 AM)hotrodmike Wrote:  the Christian God is an evil being who set out from the start to torture us ALL for eternity for no reason whatsoever, since there is nothing to be gained from such an undertaking, especially since it was entirely unnecessary for God to create "eternal Hell" in the first place.

Mike - This is the point I try (again, and again) to point out to Christians. Why is such a sick, twisted, sadistic bastard like Yahweh, even if he exists, worthy of anyone's worship and devotion?

Christians always come back with some response about God's love, yadda, yadda, yadda - but they've literally cherry picked the messages they want to retain and somehow ignored the evilness that sicko has perpetrated.

Even if Christians were proven right and Yahweh revealed himself to the world, I don't think I'd be inclined to bow down before him...

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13-04-2011, 04:13 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Please people, don't go around missing the point. As I stated before, Bible is NOT written by God or his disciples it was written by man and edited by government when needed. So you can not speak about morality and other stuff from a book that is not what it seems to be. Only when you accept that the whole Bible is false human interpretation of some imaginary laws, you can dismiss it completely and then there are no more debates about Gods plan or Gods morality. If the Bible is falsified, than the God as we know through Bible is also falsified. So there are no God laws or God morality to begin with. That is why Christian morality is wrong, because it is false and based on false "facts" and scriptures. It can't be more simple that that. The true answers always lie in simplicity and logic.

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13-04-2011, 05:01 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(29-12-2010 09:43 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  So do you care about understanding things?

Of course I care about understanding things, otherwise why join a discussion forum of any ilk, but especially an atheist forum. The nature of the topic invites investigation, debate and disagreement from time to time, but leads to greater understanding that can be backed by logic, reason and science. Also, you ask if we don't believe in "God", but the question ensues: What god are you speaking of?

I would like to leave you with this quote from Stephen Roberts:

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." Groucho Marx
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13-04-2011, 01:46 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(13-04-2011 03:26 AM)hotrodmike Wrote:  Deamonowner; I agree wholeheartedly with your last post. But I think you are being entirely too generous to suggest God has only sent about 80% of the human race to burn in Hell so far (I know you just picked a number, but humour me...)

I picked 80% as I once heard it expressed that, as roughly 80% of people today aren't christians, 80% of people would be going to hell. Of course, it was 100% before christ showed up, so It may well have been more than 90 billion people who died (there have been ~100billion people in existence, so a mere 90billion off to hell is generous to the theist.)

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

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14-04-2011, 08:01 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
After reading 5 pages (been away for a while), I have nothing else to do than have my ways with a couple of commas.
Quote:Of course, it was 100% before christ showed up
Before Christ, God didn't send anyone to hell. Then Jesus came and changed it. What a savior. :-)
Quote:What god are you speaking of?
A capitalized 'God' without an article usually refers to an Abrahamic god.

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14-04-2011, 06:46 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
@BlackEyedGhost: Sorry to jump in here (I know that contending with all us atheists can't be easy), but I just have to point out a flaw in your argument that nobody has commented on yet.

You argue that the Christian god punishes us with death/hell in order to discipline us, right? (Please correct me if I'm mistaken.) Now, besides the obvious flaw that killing people will not allow them to learn from their mistakes (nor will torturing them for eternity allow them to do this either); you seem to have a misguided idea about how to discipline in the first place.

You say that when people punish their animals, the animal doesn't know that it is for their best interest even though the person doing the punishment is doing so in the animal's best interest. Am I correct in this assessment? However, punishment is NOT in the animal's best interest. You know the kind of dogs that will randomly attack people for no reason? They do this because their owners punish them; they do not TRAIN them. There is a key difference here: in MOST cases, punishing does not alter undesirable behaviour, nor does it cultivate desirable behaviour; however, positive reinforcement does. Example: if you do not want your dog to jump up, instead of punishing him/her, you get them to sit instead. Then, you reward them for sitting. Soon, your dog will sit for you instead of jumping up on you. Why is this? Because the reward that they get for sitting outweighs their desire to jump.

Raising children is really no different from training animals. Children benefit from positive reinforcement; the ones who misbehave are the ones who either: a) do not get any attention from their parents, or b) only receive punishment as a form of attention. Children who receive positive reinforcement from a young age tend to be well-adjusted and do not have behavioural problems. So, why can't your god do this instead? When he told the biblical Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit, he did not give them an alternative choice; he did not say: "If you don't eat the fruit, I'll give you an even tastier treat later." No, instead, he told them not to eat it without giving them a reason not to. And, since they were both completely innocent and didn't yet have the "knowledge of good and evil", how were they supposed to distinguish between right and wrong without their parent telling them why it is wrong? Children are not born knowing right from wrong; they need their parents to demonstrate this to them either by example or by demonstrating REASONABLE consequences to their actions.

Reasonable consequences include negative punishment. Negative punishment is when you take away something desirable in order to show a child that what they did/said was undesirable. Example: if a child doesn't do their homework, then you take away their t.v. watching privileges until they do do their homework. You do NOT beat them, let alone torture them!

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14-04-2011, 10:07 PM (This post was last modified: 14-04-2011 10:22 PM by Norseman.)
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Well would you look at that. It seems I am not the only person on the Internet who has realized that there are more effective ways to train your dog than to beat it to submission. Big Grin
Positive point well deserved!
(11-04-2011 09:45 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  @GodVirusDeleted It is sickening how religion is used. Things like radical Islam using it for war and so forth. However, you can't discount all religion based on examples. Just because one religion says to kill the infadel or whatever doesn't mean they all do. Just because religious people do stupid things doesn't mean there religion told them to even when they think it did.

I think the Amalekites, Canaanites and Midianites would have a thing or two to say to you.

You might not see your holy book as justification for "war and so forth", but it's really difficult for me to see how you reach your conclusion. If that is not how it is supposed to be read, then what in Jhebuz name are those passages for?!

I want to rip off your superstitions and make passionate sense to you
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15-04-2011, 06:42 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Well it's to inform the Jewish people who that book was written for of their epic historical battles with the demon possessed neighboring tribes. If your children are going to learn about the fact your tribe slaughtered entire other groups of people somewhere they better have the right perspective. You did it for the good of the world, not for your own good.

Here's an important question for you though blackeyedghost. We read the bible, you discuss the true word of god. Is there a collection of words that we can look over that is this true word? Do you really support the ideas of Leviticus? or is that not part of your bible? Explain to use how you go about Christianity, because according to you at least 80% of what is found in the bible is useless human intervention. We can't really discuss this properly with you if you have a different view of the bible than we do. When we look at the bible we see it as 100% the word Christians consider tenement to their faith. They don't generally say which parts of bible are truth they say the bible is proof. We generally discount cherry picking because that goes away from the idea of a book generated faith, but for the sake of this argument what do you see as worth reading?

If we're being too general in our discussion it's partly because you're discussing all of Christianity with us. You don't seem to have faith in Mormons, Baptists, Catholics or any other school of Christianity. So what is your truth?

I have been trying to discuss with you on a philosophical level as discussing facts is contrary to the existence of god. You can't really discern this existence believed to be metaphysical by the physical. I'm letting you choose where the battle is, let's see what you have.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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15-04-2011, 11:01 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(14-04-2011 06:46 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  You argue that the Christian god punishes us with death/hell in order to discipline us, right? (Please correct me if I'm mistaken.) Now, besides the obvious flaw that killing people will not allow them to learn from their mistakes (nor will torturing them for eternity allow them to do this either); you seem to have a misguided idea about how to discipline in the first place.
Being condemned to Hell isn't for the purpose of discipline. It is the final punishment for those who have rejected God's attempts to get them to change their way of living. It is analogous to capital punishment in human law.

God does sometimes discipline and correct people but he does it by bringing about troubles in this life.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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15-04-2011, 11:37 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Quote:It is the final punishment for those who haverejected God's attempts to get them to change their way of living. It is analogous to capital punishment in human law.

He's omnimpotent, but fails to get his own creation to change their ways? Tongue ''But he gave us free will'', but doesn't bother to make his existance apparent, but rather hides in the shadows of thousands of churches, only saving those who believe his ridiculous book and don't demand evidence. And hell is not analogous to capital punishment, since hell is eternal. I think that's been repeated in the thread many times.

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