Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
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31-12-2010, 02:20 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(30-12-2010 01:09 AM)The_observer Wrote:  Personnaly, I admire your courage to log into an atheist forum -your oposition- and to open a fair discussion. That's the spirit! Heart

We are not aginst god, we just don't think there is one.
As for a "why" we don't believe? I can only speak for myself: Sience works, Religion doesnt. When your sick, you go see a doctor first, not a priest.

If you like, you can picture us both on the opposite side of a glass pane. life has painted an arrow on it. To me it points to the right, to you it points to the left. (well possible we will both end at the same destination in the end Smile)

Lol, thanks. I'm doing this so that I can know that what I believe is true and not just a blind faith. I figure that silver is purified by fire.

Interestingly enough in the Old Testament there are medical guidelines for identifying and treating some diseases, so people really would go to a priest. If I'm not mistaken one of the things it talks about is what would now be recognized as methods for identifying cancerous things on your skin. Thus all the "lepers" or people with skin diseases.
Anyways, I would have to disagree with you that religion doesn't work (obviously) because I've found that the philosophical value of the Bible far outweighs most anything else. It also protected people in ancient times from things that we would now consider health risks (going back to your doctor vs priest thing). Raw (red) meat, shellfish, and other foods are identified as bad in the Old Testament and now we know how they are risky to eat. Circumcision was also practiced by Jews and is now practiced due to health issues.

I find that the Bible is more full of wisdom and intelligence than many give it credit for. I do believe that it is not a substitution for thinking and science and all those other great things, but I do think it's an incredible tool that we can learn from.
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31-12-2010, 02:29 AM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2010 02:49 AM by TheKetola.)
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Quote:Honestly, I don't really like Catholic churches. They've twisted the Bible so much it's not even funny.

This is God's creation and He has the right to do whatever He wants with us, but He chooses to give us a will of our own. Since He doesn't want to control us like puppets and gave us free will we are entitled the right to do whatever we want. This means we can be nice to others or we can treat them like dirt. We can sin or we can do what God wants. You think that the church has hurt the world, but Jesus Himself says in the Bible
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind. This is the first and the greatest commandment and the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All of the laws and the prophets hang off of these two commandments."
Anything that the church has done to hurt the world is because of the people in the church and not because of the Bible that they claim to base their actions in.

God tells us about Hell and does these atrocities in order to dissuade us from sinning because He knows that any sin we do will do nothing but harm us and others. God gave us the Bible in order for us to understand Him and everything else.

All of the things that you stated that you hate about the church, I also hate. The church has missed its purpose. In the verses I quoted above you see the purpose that God gave to the church.

You are cherry picking from the bible, the bible is riddled with genicide, and "an eye for an eye" comments as well as comments such as the ones you make. Truly the bible will say anything you want it to, which is why it can not be trusted, because most of the statements are contradicted later on.

Quote:No, not all fossils, just a large amount of fish and water animal fossils found in environments devoid of water life. Other fossils could come from a large array of times.

If it was caused by the flood I wouldn't expect to find them by size, I'd expect to find a bunch of dead stuff scattered throughout the layers that were exposed during the time of the flood regardless of size.

I made a fossil in just a few minutes in the 3rd grade. It really doesn't take billions of years.

What you made was not a fossil, it was a fossil print, which is a cast of whatever the child makes, if you could make a fossil that quickly, then we wouldn't consider fossil fuels as a non-renewable resource.
Quote:Lol, thanks. I'm doing this so that I can know that what I believe is true and not just a blind faith. I figure that silver is purified by fire.

Interestingly enough in the Old Testament there are medical guidelines for identifying and treating some diseases, so people really would go to a priest. If I'm not mistaken one of the things it talks about is what would now be recognized as methods for identifying cancerous things on your skin. Thus all the "lepers" or people with skin diseases.
Anyways, I would have to disagree with you that religion doesn't work (obviously) because I've found that the philosophical value of the Bible far outweighs most anything else. It also protected people in ancient times from things that we would now consider health risks (going back to your doctor vs priest thing). Raw (red) meat, shellfish, and other foods are identified as bad in the Old Testament and now we know how they are risky to eat. Circumcision was also practiced by Jews and is now practiced due to health issues.

I find that the Bible is more full of wisdom and intelligence than many give it credit for. I do believe that it is not a substitution for thinking and science and all those other great things, but I do think it's an incredible tool that we can learn from.

Circumcision doesn't have any objective health benefits, in fact some men who get circumsized later in life say that they had more pleasure before (of course this information is more subjective, however there are many nerve endings located in the foreskin, so removing these would remove the pleasure created from them).

Since you reference the torah, you also know that it calls bats birds right? This reflects the knowledge of the author, and not of the God who supposedly inspired it.
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31-12-2010, 05:18 AM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
The worst part is there is government funding of circumcision to fight HIV and there are a few problems with that :
1.It doesn't reduce HIV risk
2.It costs 100 times more than condoms
3.Men who have the procedure sometimes care less for using condoms
4.The procedure mutilates male genitalia and can have trouble healing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adiiK9sPx_Y
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31-12-2010, 06:19 AM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2010 06:23 AM by Kikko.)
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
Ghost with a black eye Wrote:Interestingly enough in the Old Testament there are medical guidelines for identifying and treating some diseases, so people really would go to a priest. If I'm not mistaken one of the things it talks about is what would now be recognized as methods for identifying cancerous things on your skin. Thus all the "lepers" or people with skin diseases.
Anyways, I would have to disagree with you that religion doesn't work (obviously) because I've found that the philosophical value of the Bible far outweighs most anything else. It also protected people in ancient times from things that we would now consider health risks (going back to your doctor vs priest thing). Raw (red) meat, shellfish, and other foods are identified as bad in the Old Testament and now we know how they are risky to eat. Circumcision was also practiced by Jews and is now practiced due to health issues.
''One that is sick from leprecy has to wear broken clothes, keep his/her hair dispershed and the lower area of his/her face has to be covered and s/he has to yell: 'Filthy, filthy.' - As long as s/he has this disease, s/he'll remain filthy. S/he has to live outside the camp.'' -(3. Moses'. 13: 45–46[my translation])
With Yahweh's instructions on identifying leprecy, people with skintuberculosis, psoriasis, scalp silsa and other skin mushrooms (and with other diseases that might cause light scar changes on ones skin) would be easily mistaken to have leprecy. Also, God thinks that leprecy can be transmitted to a house.*
Almighty God didn't mind healing these people, but rather isolate them from the community, and if one with leprecy was lucky and healed, he had to do animal sacrifices for God.*
Many other things in the old testament show, that Gods views on what is filthy and how to cleanse oneself from the filth are somewhat ridiculous. I'm sorry, my bible is 30 kilometers from me (so I've marked the things that I'll give you pasages for) and there's no way I'll be going there today in the snow. And I got fireworks to blow up, so you'll have to wait 'till the next year.Wink
me Wrote:Second, aboot completely excluding the supernatural: everything that exists is natural, so anything supernatural should exist outside existance (''the physical world'' if you may) and we don't even know if that's possible (if we do, inform me aboot it). And the next thing is about supernatural things affecting 'the physical world'. A (physical) particle hits an other (physical) particle, something happens. Something ''non-physical'' hits (how?) a physical particle, what happens and how?

What are the problems that you see in excluding 'the' supernatural? And what do you mean by the supernatural?

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
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31-12-2010, 09:37 AM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2010 09:51 AM by gamutman.)
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(30-12-2010 01:19 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Why am I an atheist?

Because my desire for knowledge surpassed my desire for closure.

Is that original to you? That line? Can I borrow it? I love it.
(30-12-2010 09:59 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  
(29-12-2010 09:51 PM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  It's not really a case of choosing to not believe. I think closest would be "unable to believe due to lack of evidence" though if you wanna keep it simple.

I've heard that before and I understand there to be more evidence for Christianity, namely young earth creationism, than for other things and religions including macro evolution.

No, no no no no no noononono.

*SIGH*

There are pseudo-scientists and "teachers" out there who distort science to make it fit biblical teaching, but they are always easily debunked by actual science. Here are a few names of people who have made claims that "disprove" standard science, but who have had their "teaching" debunked numerous times. Ken Hamm, Ray Comfort, YOUtube user NephilimFree, and many others. All of these people have seen their arguments crushed, yet they continue using their crushed arguments because - I dunnowhy - I guess because they'd rather just not admit they are wrong.
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31-12-2010, 12:41 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(31-12-2010 09:37 AM)gamutman Wrote:  There are pseudo-scientists and "teachers" out there who distort science to make it fit biblical teaching, but they are always easily debunked by actual science. Here are a few names of people who have made claims that "disprove" standard science, but who have had their "teaching" debunked numerous times. Ken Hamm, Ray Comfort, YOUtube user NephilimFree, and many others. All of these people have seen their arguments crushed, yet they continue using their crushed arguments because - I dunnowhy - I guess because they'd rather just not admit they are wrong.

A good example is the old venomfangx who stated once.

"Lets talk about chemical evolution. In laboratory science it is proven that hydrogen cannot turn into another element, so we already know that chemical evolution, is IMPOSSIBLE"

which thunderfoot very handily refuted, even if you don't believe the first examples he presented I think you'd be hard pressed not to believe the effects of a nuclear warhead.

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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31-12-2010, 03:00 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(31-12-2010 09:37 AM)gamutman Wrote:  Is that original to you? That line? Can I borrow it? I love it.

Made it up on the spot. I thought it was pretty awesome myself.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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31-12-2010, 05:13 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(31-12-2010 03:00 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  
(31-12-2010 09:37 AM)gamutman Wrote:  Is that original to you? That line? Can I borrow it? I love it.

Made it up on the spot. I thought it was pretty awesome myself.

It's pretty genius actually, short, sweet, and spot on.
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31-12-2010, 06:48 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(31-12-2010 05:13 PM)TheKetola Wrote:  
(31-12-2010 03:00 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Why am I an atheist?

Because my desire for knowledge surpassed my desire for closure.
(31-12-2010 09:37 AM)gamutman Wrote:  Is that original to you? That line? Can I borrow it? I love it.

Made it up on the spot. I thought it was pretty awesome myself.

It's pretty genius actually, short, sweet, and spot on.


[Image: hattip.gif]

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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01-01-2011, 08:31 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(29-12-2010 09:43 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  So do you care about understanding things?

Yes, I do care about understanding things. When I researched the stuff that my ex-church and other christians told me about god and the bible so that I could understand it better I realized that they didn't know what they where talking about and that their opinions could not be considered to be right. This is why I reject god, religion, the super-natural and anything else that does not have verifiable evidence to support itself. Most atheists care about understanding things. It is the learning about how things really work that make us reject religions and gods.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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