Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
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18-01-2011, 09:46 PM
 
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(29-12-2010 09:29 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  I'm new at this site and I thought it looked interesting, so yeah. I'm a Christian and I'm curious as to why people choose to not believe in God. I'm not offended at all with people bashing me and what I believe, so yeah. Big Grin
Project much?Tongue

Since you ask a personal question so as to engage any/each member's personal opinion, I can not offend you by living my life while holding to personal opinion. Thus, here's my answer.

All humans are born atheist. One has to be taught to believe in, or accept, faith.

I have come to the realization, after sober review of the tenets of the faith, that Christianity is unintelligent. It's deity is a Sadist and in order to worship that one must by proxy conform to the tenets of Masochism.

Christianity, in it's most basic, asks the believer to be saved from it's own god. The one and only, thus the god of every faith on earth where sectarian bias makes this world a living hell as semantics causes believers to act as anything but Christ like, or holy.

So yeah, welcome to atheists forum.
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19-01-2011, 07:55 PM
 
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
for me it is because of 3 things:
1: if god actually exists, he is the greatest criminal/murderer/guy-that-convinces-people-to-rape man ever and we should rebel against him.(if he exists)
2:there are too many things that proves the bible is wrong
3:science is something that acutually works. it's something pratical. not something inane and hollow like GOD.

hope you can change your view and become and atheist. i was an christian before but seriously creationism is just BS. no offence to you.
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09-03-2011, 11:41 AM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2011 12:08 PM by BlackEyedGhost.)
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(19-01-2011 07:55 PM)the4saken Wrote:  for me it is because of 3 things:
1: if god actually exists, he is the greatest criminal/murderer/guy-that-convinces-people-to-rape man ever and we should rebel against him.(if he exists)
2:there are too many things that proves the bible is wrong
3:science is something that acutually works. it's something pratical. not something inane and hollow like GOD.

hope you can change your view and become and atheist. i was an christian before but seriously creationism is just BS. no offence to you.

1. God is not a human and can't murder. We all die someday, so being God, it's simply deciding the time when we die.
-I'd also guess that the convincing to rape isn't from the Bible, but some other religion, so I'm not an expert on that.

2. Proves? Or supports the idea?

3. Yes, science rocks. Archeology supports the Bible overwhelmingly. Practicality and understanding are awesome too, and the Bible repeatedly makes the point that we need to understand things as best as we can. My favorite Bible verse: "Make your ear attentive to wisdom, Incline your ear to understanding." -Proverbs 2:2 (NASB)-
(18-01-2011 09:46 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  Project much?Tongue

Since you ask a personal question so as to engage any/each member's personal opinion, I can not offend you by living my life while holding to personal opinion. Thus, here's my answer.

All humans are born atheist. One has to be taught to believe in, or accept, faith.

I have come to the realization, after sober review of the tenets of the faith, that Christianity is unintelligent. It's deity is a Sadist and in order to worship that one must by proxy conform to the tenets of Masochism.

Christianity, in it's most basic, asks the believer to be saved from it's own god. The one and only, thus the god of every faith on earth where sectarian bias makes this world a living hell as semantics causes believers to act as anything but Christ like, or holy.

So yeah, welcome to atheists forum.

As that first point doesn't really have a basis, I guess I'll just leave it alone.

Are you referring to any particular denomination with "tenants of faith"?

In a sense, you're correct about what we believe, but in another, you're not.
Basically the way it goes is God created us to be with him as friends, but we did the one thing He told us we shouldn't, so sin and corruption and imperfection entered the world. God is perfect, so anything imperfect is basically garbage to Him and is thus not worth preserving. But He still saw us having the capacity to fulfill His original purpose, so instead of completely destroying us, He continued to give us the choice of either fulfilling our purpose, or being destroyed. In order to make this possible, He sent His son to live a sinless life as a human and to take our penalty of death for us in order to free mankind of it's punishment. Sin entered the world through one man (Adam) and it left through one man (Jesus) as well. So Christianity at it's most basic is accepting that Jesus' sacrifice was enough to absolve us of our punishment or our rightful destruction, not just being saved from our own God.

Now a question for you. If you don't like it, but it's true, does it matter that you don't like it?

Thank you for your welcome. Big Grin I'm glad to be accepted at a site that is against my beliefs. It makes my life easier.
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09-03-2011, 12:31 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(09-03-2011 11:41 AM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  God is perfect, so anything imperfect is basically garbage to Him and is thus not worth preserving.

This explains why he spends so much time in Africa giving AIDS to babies! I get it now!

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09-03-2011, 01:02 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(09-03-2011 11:41 AM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  
(19-01-2011 07:55 PM)the4saken Wrote:  for me it is because of 3 things:
1: if god actually exists, he is the greatest criminal/murderer/guy-that-convinces-people-to-rape man ever and we should rebel against him.(if he exists)
2:there are too many things that proves the bible is wrong
3:science is something that acutually works. it's something pratical. not something inane and hollow like GOD.

1. God is not a human and can't murder. We all die someday, so being God, it's simply deciding the time when we die.
-I'd also guess that the convincing to rape isn't from the Bible, but some other religion, so I'm not an expert on that.

2. Proves? Or supports the idea?

3. Yes, science rocks. Archeology supports the Bible overwhelmingly. Practicality and understanding are awesome too, and the Bible repeatedly makes the point that we need to understand things as best as we can. My favorite Bible verse: "Make your ear attentive to wisdom, Incline your ear to understanding." -Proverbs 2:2 (NASB)-
1: I once worked for a boss who thought that the rules he himself wrote did not apply to him. If your master of morals is such being, I don’t want ANYTHING to do with him nor his arbitrary rules. To put it in a one-liner: "An omnipotent and endlessly good god shouldn’t allow children to die a horrible death from cancer."

2: The bible already lost me as a kid at the talking snake.

3:Where? Everywhere? Or just at verses you pick? As far as I am concerned silence should apply to everything in the bible. Talking snakes for example. Or is that a bad example? Should I pick another? What strikes me as odd on the bible is that the word of god is mostly unclear and very subjective. Some good friend we have...

(09-03-2011 11:41 AM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  Now a question for you. If you don't like it, but it's true, does it matter that you don't like it?
Do you think I LIKE to know that I can be diagnosed cancer tomorrow, that if meteorite hits earth life can be decimated, or, less freaky, I can step into my car tomorrow and get a deathly accident. Do you think I like all the above examples? Don’t you think I WANT to believe that I have a supernatural friend who protects me from all this? Just because it’s appealing does not mean it’s actually true.

You are truly welcome on this site. Just because we differ from opinion, does not mean we should be enemy’s.

/*personal opinion/
If you want my opinion, You know what, God might exist. But the God like he is written in holy books like bibles, Koran’s or Thora... You have to be really gullible or ignorant to think that.
/personal opinion*/
(09-03-2011 12:31 PM)Seasbury Wrote:  
(09-03-2011 11:41 AM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  God is perfect, so anything imperfect is basically garbage to Him and is thus not worth preserving.
This explains why he spends so much time in Africa giving AIDS to babies! I get it now!
I fear most theists see AIDS as a punishment.

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09-03-2011, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2011 01:44 PM by BlackEyedGhost.)
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(09-03-2011 01:02 PM)The_observer Wrote:  1: I once worked for a boss who thought that the rules he himself wrote did not apply to him. If your master of morals is such being, I don’t want ANYTHING to do with him nor his arbitrary rules. To put it in a one-liner: "An omnipotent and endlessly good god shouldn’t allow children to die a horrible death from cancer."

2: The bible already lost me as a kid at the talking snake.

3:Where? Everywhere? Or just at verses you pick? As far as I am concerned silence should apply to everything in the bible. Talking snakes for example. Or is that a bad example? Should I pick another? What strikes me as odd on the bible is that the word of god is mostly unclear and very subjective. Some good friend we have...

Do you think I LIKE to know that I can be diagnosed cancer tomorrow, that if meteorite hits earth life can be decimated, or, less freaky, I can step into my car tomorrow and get a deathly accident. Do you think I like all the above examples? Don’t you think I WANT to believe that I have a supernatural friend who protects me from all this? Just because it’s appealing does not mean it’s actually true.

You are truly welcome on this site. Just because we differ from opinion, does not mean we should be enemy’s.

/*personal opinion/
If you want my opinion, You know what, God might exist. But the God like he is written in holy books like bibles, Koran’s or Thora... You have to be really gullible or ignorant to think that.
/personal opinion*/

This particular conversation was not with you, but I'll continue it I guess.

1: A question: Is it ever alright to kill? Murder and killing are not the same thing. God weighs motives as well as acts.

2: Doesn't mean it didn't happen. If things have devolved since the time God created things, then there's a large variety of things that could have been lost. As well as the ability of animals to form words (like a parrot) or the intelligent capacity to understand a language. Also, the language at the time wasn't like anything we have now. It was a much more ... divine language that made much more sense and would thus be simpler to learn and use.

3: Everywhere. I can say that beyond a shadow of a doubt. God asks for you to trust His teachings and that's a major part of them, so all He's really asking is that we choose to learn and understand what's already correct.

It's unclear to you in the same way English is unclear to a newborn. It's not nonsensical, you just don't understand it. In addition, the "Word of God" is a large topic that you can't expect to understand right away. Jesus is called the Word of God because He taught about a million different things that God wanted us to know. He taught clearly as well as metaphorically in order to make different points and to have us understand. If you really want to know what the objective word of God is, you should read up on Jesus' teachings.

4: Exactly!! You just made my point for me. The opposite is also true. Just because it seems stupid, doesn't make it wrong. If you believed in God, you'd also (most likely) believe that those things are also within His control even though He allows them to happen.

No, it doesn't. In fact, I hope to be friends with people here despite our differences. After all, even if I saw you as my enemies, Jesus said to "love your enemies" and to "love your neighbor."

I can understand how you would get that, but I don't think that's the case (obviously). I find that the more I learn, the more I believe in the God of the Bible. You're always entitled to that opinion though.
(09-03-2011 12:31 PM)Seasbury Wrote:  This explains why he spends so much time in Africa giving AIDS to babies! I get it now!

The AIDS epidemic in Africa is largely due to unfaithfulness in relationships. Doing things that are wrong has natural consequences for both the people doing them, and others near to the situation. AIDS is a curse God laid upon mankind as a whole for what mankind as a whole has done. The AIDS epidemic has gotten better in places where Christians teach marital faithfulness.
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09-03-2011, 02:09 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
BlackEyedGhost Wrote:The AIDS epidemic in Africa is largely due to unfaithfulness in relationships. Doing things that are wrong has natural consequences for both the people doing them, and others near to the situation. AIDS is a curse God laid upon mankind as a whole for what mankind as a whole has done. The AIDS epidemic has gotten better in places where Christians teach marital faithfulness.

Ok, now, I don't want to be mean, or belittling, but what you are saying, while widely popular among your kind, is simply, for lack of a better word - flat out retarded.

If you were correct, a good chunk of your clergy and politicians (you know - those that your "values voters" elect) would be have AIDS today - especially rockstars like Newt Gingrich, David Vitter, and Ted Haggerty just to name three out of too many to keep track of.

I'm sorry, but AIDS is a virus, much like influenza (which arguably has killed millions more than AIDS to date), smallpox, measles, etc.

People like yourself long to believe that "god" is responsible, because it justifies your belief that an interactive invisible friend is still around - but it isn't real, it's simply a virus. Part of me is really sad for you for actually believing something as moronic as this. When I wrote the post you quoted it was tongue in cheek - ala Ricky Gervais - didn't stop and think for a minute that you would pull you pants down and expose yourself the way you did - sorry about that.

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09-03-2011, 02:39 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(09-03-2011 01:35 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  This particular conversation was not with you, but I'll continue it I guess.
Thanks. I think it is very interesting.
(09-03-2011 01:35 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  1: A question: Is it ever alright to kill? Murder and killing are not the same thing. God weighs motives as well as acts.
Murder=death, killing=death don't see much difference. Sorry. Especially in situations where people who deserve to be living die en people who deserve to die live.
(09-03-2011 01:35 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  2: Doesn't mean it didn't happen. If things have devolved since the time God created things, then there's a large variety of things that could have been lost. As well as the ability of animals to form words (like a parrot) or the intelligent capacity to understand a language. Also, the language at the time wasn't like anything we have now. It was a much more ... divine language that made much more sense and would thus be simpler to learn and use.
You DO know that, by having to assume this, you are making it far more unlikely than it already was?
(09-03-2011 01:35 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  3: Everywhere. I can say that beyond a shadow of a doubt. God asks for you to trust His teachings and that's a major part of them, so all He's really asking is that we choose to learn and understand what's already correct.
So EVERYTHING in the bible can be scientificly tested? or do I misunderstand you? (which is quite possible)
(09-03-2011 01:35 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  It's unclear to you in the same way English is unclear to a newborn. It's not nonsensical, you just don't understand it. In addition, the "Word of God" is a large topic that you can't expect to understand right away. Jesus is called the Word of God because He taught about a million different things that God wanted us to know. He taught clearly as well as metaphorically in order to make different points and to have us understand. If you really want to know what the objective word of God is, you should read up on Jesus' teachings.
What an amazing missed opportunity to make his already confused and fallible creation understand his teachings. What's wrong with good and clear up to date communication. God wants me to do this or that... he mails/sms's me. can't be THAT hard for a being that creates an entire universe overnight. You know what, maybe I am asking to much. why not make sure that HIS teachings are the ONLY teachings you can find.

Now... I know you can say "Who are you to tell God what to do" but that does not really answer the question on why he doesn’t. Theism does not solve my questions, it only replaces them with others.

(09-03-2011 01:35 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  4: Exactly!! You just made my point for me. The opposite is also true. Just because it seems stupid, doesn't make it wrong. If you believed in God, you'd also (most likely) believe that those things are also within His control even though He allows them to happen.
Intriguing how we both can use the same argument in our advantage.
(09-03-2011 01:35 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  No, it doesn't. In fact, I hope to be friends with people here despite our differences. After all, even if I saw you as my enemies, Jesus said to "love your enemies" and to "love your neighbor."
I see theists as people who are on the opposite site of a glass pane. There's an arrow painted on the pane. To them it points right, to me it points left. We can stand there and discuss about the arrow and get nowhere. But if we follow it, we might both end up at the same destination. Wink
(09-03-2011 01:35 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  I can understand how you would get that, but I don't think that's the case (obviously). I find that the more I learn, the more I believe in the God of the Bible. You're always entitled to that opinion though.
As long as no one forces a dogma on me, I am willing to respect them.

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09-03-2011, 02:54 PM
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(18-01-2011 06:59 PM)Atea Wrote:  I am new to forums in general, so I apologize for not quoting Ghost's posts properly.

First of all, "bashing" is a weapon used when there is no other mechanism of defense in a discussion. You've seen that the atheists on this page are nice people willing to have a coherent discussion with you. However, there are many mean atheists that will mistreat you, and there are many Theists that will mistreat us too. It applies both ways.

You gave us How do you know the Bible is true , it literally says:

"However, Christianity is not a blind faith. It is the only religion that can prove itself, and a main source of that proof is the Bible."

Strike one. Using the Bible to prove Christianity is true is like using Harry Potter to prove magic is true.

"The Old Testament was written between approximately 1450 BC and 430 BC. "

Strike two. This is the thing with most Christians, they're given the facts they consider true but don't analyze beyond the surface. Society was very primitive back then, and just how primitive it was is portrayed beautifully in the O.T. It teaches murder, rape, slavery, pillage, taking of women, punishment, sacrifice, and so on. Whatever was written in that time simply describes how savage life was back then. I don't know if there are any carbon dated manuscripts that actually prove the time of their writing, either. Too many things are wrong with that statement.


"a boy named Jesus was born to a virgin named Mary. "

Strike three. If a man ejaculated on a woman's vagina and the sperm swam up, she would be pregnant like any other normal woman. No supernatural actions, only nature in action.


Three strikes and the page is discarded.


You say god is almighty, and that "he could've created everything at the same time", but science proves your belief wrong. Having every single living specie in the planet alive at the same time is simply impossible.

"I've usually considered that the stars (including the sun) existed when God said "Let there be light" and it wasn't until the 4th day when they could actually be seen clearly from Earth."

Again, like every Christian, you resort to interpreting some things YOUR way, and other things literally. If the Bible were true, then EVERYTHING on it would be taken literally. And please explain what you mean by "seen clearly from Earth".


As for Christian beliefs in general, they're senseless: there is an almighty god in heaven that loves every human being on this Earth, but if we don't worship him, we'll be sent to hell. Oh, and he sent his son to Earth to die for our sins, his only beloved son who never sinned, and then came back from the dead. He also wrote this book that is the absolute truth and we must believe it because he told us IN THAT BOOK that it is the truth, and that everything else is bullshit. Did I mention he's almighty, and yet there's a bad guy tempting us? That's like saying I love a bunch of kids and letting a rottweiler lose in their backyard, just so they learn that "dogs are bad and I don't want you near them". It's stupid.

There are hundreds of gods, but he is the only real one.

"He" may be Allah, Jesus Christ, Ra, Zeus, Odin, Rama.....Etc.

The "scientific" evidence presented by many Christian "teachers" is crap. Back when the Bible was written everything was a mystery, so people simply attributed things they couldn't explain to the supernatural (hell, we believed that mice were "born" from nasty clothes) and now every "mystery" attributed to god is being cleared up. We thought the female period was a "divine punishment", but now we now the REAL reason women have periods. Christianity knows it's a dying faith so, as before, it's making up explanations for the scientific truths out of the blue. One day, Christianity will be considered a myth, just like every other religion.

As for why I'm an atheist....it's more than clear. I focus on my real-life problems and try to enjoy my life as much as I can, and instead of going to church on Sundays or doing something religious, I like to read, hang on with real friends, occasionally volunteer, etc. My daily activities are focused on making my life and others' easier, not worshiping an invisible flying man that loves me. It must be nice to believe there's someone out there that loves me no matter what and wants the best for me all the time. Nice, but not logical. Religion is merely an extremely efficient manipulation method used by those with superior minds to handle the masses, in a few short words, Christianity is all about fear.

1: The Bible makes sense when you understand it, so that's support, but not proof. Proof (legal-historical) lies in the agreement of the Bible and historical and archaeological evidence. The Bible is a compilation of the most reliable (in the sense of historicity) historical documents we have and the fact that the archeology supports what the Bible says is a huge testament to it's reliability. So in the sense that the Bible is involved in the support of the Bible, it makes sense.

2: And concentration camps aren't primitive?.... The people of Earth are just as primitive today as they were in the OT. It's called the sinful nature.
The Bible teaches about those things, but it doesn't teach all of them as moral standards. Sacrifice was symbolic of our need for compensation for our sins. It was basically just killing an animal, so no more primitive than us killing things for food now. Pillage in the OT is pretty much always killing everyone including children and women and is usually initiated by God telling the leader to do so. The killing of everyone is symbolic of how no one is without guilt and how the sins of one man affects the whole world in terrible ways. Those who were killed were also going to die someday, so God was just choosing the time for them to die just like any other person. Punishment? What do you call modern court systems? Primitive? It also teaches slavery from both the perspective of the servant and the master. It says that masters are to treat their servants well and servants are to be willing to serve. Also, slavery as we think of it today isn't the exact same as it was in Biblical times.

3: What? Semantics. You know what it means, so take it for what it is supposed to mean, not just what it says. It means that she hadn't been in a situation where she would've been impregnated, not just that she hadn't had sex.

4: I wasn't making the point that everything was alive on Earth at the same time.

5: The stories in Genesis were written by men of their time, so things would be seen from their perspective. I see the account as being that God brought light to the Earth on the first day with the Sun, but He didn't make the atmosphere clear enough to see it and the rest of the sky clearly until the fourth day. Either way, as I said it's my own interpretation of it in the way that makes the most sense to me.

The Bible is full of things that are difficult to fully understand, so it's necessary for people to interpret things in the way that makes sense to them in some circumstances when we're not entirely sure how something works. I didn't change what the Bible literally says, I simply elaborated on the possibilities of it's implications.

6: Lol, that's totally what Jehovah's Witnesses believe about Watchtower society. Because Watchtower says it's infallible it's infallible and thus we should believe that it's infallible.

Anyways, the absolute truth is something God gave us the ability to discern. I think you and I can both agree that at the very least, people have the capacity to figure things out for themselves. God gave us the Bible to help us as a guide, not to brainwash us into thinking everything it says is true, but to help us understand what really is true. The Bible was written by men, so it's views aren't always the views of God and is thus not entirely infallible. But it is correct in more things than any other teacher or book or whatever than I have ever known.

In order to have us as friends and not just robots, God had to give us the choice to follow Him. The fact that we have the choice breeds that temptation. Things make sense when you make a point to understand them.

7: He could be. If you take the time to seriously understand what each religious group believes and what their teachings actually are, I'm pretty confident you'll find that the only one that isn't totally based in something some guy thought up is the Biblical God. Other religions are based mainly on the teachings of a single person, whereas the Bible is a compilation of what many prophets and teachers taught about the same God.

8: Scientific evidence lies in Archeology. Most proof you'll be presented with is other things that support and are supported by the Bible, but aren't proof in and of themselves. Proof in this case isn't scientific, but historical.

The way I see the supernatural realm is as the realm of ideas. A spirit was what people would call an idea. The spirit of honesty, the spirit of love, and often the idea of God's attributes working within a person would be called the Spirit of God. It really makes sense, but that's not the way most people look at it. Most people are more superstitious in their way of seeing it.

You say that about Christianity, but you don't understand it as you should in order to be able to say that.

9: Christianity is all about order and goodness. The Christians don't usually portray it as such, but Biblically it's true.

In doing good things, you worship God. In everything you do that is pleasing to God, you worship Him. It's not about sitting around chanting and telling everyone how awesome God is, it's about living in the way He wishes for us. Everything good is from God and everything good we do is from God whether you recognize that or not. I don't intend to convert anyone here to Christianity, simply to break down misconceptions about it. To teach is all I can do, anything more is up to you guys.

Thanks for listening to what I have to say.
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09-03-2011, 03:31 PM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2011 03:47 PM by 13mentaculus.)
RE: Me is Christian. You no believe in God?
(09-03-2011 02:54 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  God gave us the Bible to help us as a guide, not to brainwash us into thinking everything it says is true, but to help us understand what really is true. The Bible was written by men, so it's views aren't always the views of God and is thus not entirely infallible.

How do we discern which parts of The Bible are the views of God, and which parts are the views or exaggerations of the authors?
(18-01-2011 09:46 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  All humans are born atheist. One has to be taught to believe in, or accept, faith.

(09-03-2011 11:41 AM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  As that first point doesn't really have a basis, I guess I'll just leave it alone.
@BlackEyedGhost: I think that I quoted you, and GlassyKitten's quote that you were referencing, correctly. If I didn't, then I apologize in advance.

I agree with GassyKitten. Atheism is the default position with respect to all claims to the existence of a god, or a set of gods.

You cannot profess belief in something that you aren't aware of.
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