Media and how it affects many things
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19-04-2013, 11:39 AM
RE: Media and how it affects many things
(19-04-2013 01:14 AM)JAH Wrote:  I am channeling my inner I and I here so I expect no forgiveness.

At next years Boston Marathon much will be made about what happened this year. Moments of silence, mention of the victims, you can imagine it now and will see it then.

A year from now the fire and explosion in a fertilizer plant that killed some 40 people (I think that is what I heard on the news tonight) and damaged a significant portion of a town will have been long forgotten.

Even now the news is fixated on the Boston Marathon attack while what happened at a plant that apparently had significant safety issues is something of an afterthought.

Safety issues that can cause many deaths and great damage are not particularly important.

Nutjobs that can kill a few (and yes permanently damage many) are very very very important to the general media.

What does that say about the US media. Please do not say that they report what people are interested in. The media influences what the public is interested in by what they report. Anyone who suggests otherwise is not very thoughtful.

I would further suggest that the monied and powerful classes exert great pressure on the media to ignore facts that may cost them money.

This isn't a question concerning the media/news, it's a question concerning the system and structure of economics in America.

What you get in the news, is exactly what you would expect given the system, give or take.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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19-04-2013, 11:43 AM
Re: RE: Media and how it affects many things
(19-04-2013 11:37 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Politically - yes, I am an atheist.

Ontologically, I am foremost, a humanist. When a person speaks, about what it is they believe exists, they are making an ontological statement, and they are determining their understanding of the order of reality.

The term, "atheist." loses its quality, when theism is quelled. Humanism is the correct opposition to theism. Atheism is the political doctrine opposed to theist justifications for government policy. Survey the organizational missions of atheist organizations, and that definition will be confirmed. Any definition contrary to that is inaccurate.

I'm a bit baffled at how you conclude humanism is the correct opposition to theism... It isn't an opposition at all. Not without adding layers of context to the terms that aren't what they actually mean.

And how is one politically an atheist? It sounds like you mean secularist.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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19-04-2013, 11:47 AM
RE: Media and how it affects many things
(19-04-2013 11:39 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  This isn't a question concerning the media/news, it's a question concerning the system and structure of economics in America.

What you get in the news, is exactly what you would expect given the system, give or take.

That's pretty good - any ideas on how to fix/adjust the system to approach a higher efficiency?

Do you think ass-wipes like JAH, and Weeee_Zart, contribut to the better evolution, or are they as detrimental as the theists???

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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19-04-2013, 11:57 AM
RE: Media and how it affects many things
(19-04-2013 11:32 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  But, you and I know who they are, they are famous.

They will not be as famous as our scientists. Many politicians and other humanitarians will be better remembered - the fame of a warrior is a phenomenon of the past, and science-fiction.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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19-04-2013, 12:04 PM
RE: Media and how it affects many things
(19-04-2013 11:57 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(19-04-2013 11:32 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  But, you and I know who they are, they are famous.

They will not be as famous as our scientists. Many politicians and other humanitarians will be better remembered - the fame of a warrior is a phenomenon of the past, and science-fiction.

Yup. A listers, B listers.... But there are currently seven billion of us, most of us are not remotely close to a headline, let alone thousands of headlines. And not anytime quickly.
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19-04-2013, 12:10 PM
RE: Media and how it affects many things
(19-04-2013 11:43 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I'm a bit baffled at how you conclude humanism is the correct opposition to theism... It isn't an opposition at all. Not without adding layers of context to the terms that aren't what they actually mean.
You have an inaccurate definition. It is probably the compromised description used to appease the Christians who oppose the lack of respect for belief in gods.

(19-04-2013 11:43 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  And how is one politically an atheist? It sounds like you mean secularist.

Secularism does not oppose theist justification for government policy. Secularism insists that ideologies be justly represented in republic government. Republican government insists that ideologies only have a chance of being represented, and that the ideology must gather a supportive constituency.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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19-04-2013, 01:16 PM
RE: Media and how it affects many things
(19-04-2013 11:47 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  That's pretty good - any ideas on how to fix/adjust the system to approach a higher efficiency?

Do you think ass-wipes like JAH, and Weeee_Zart, contribut to the better evolution, or are they as detrimental as the theists???

Well, you don't really need any ideas, it just follows, if you accept both: the problem; and the problem as something you want to fix.

First you have to accept that the problem is one of capitalism/markets, then whether or not that is actually a problem you care to fix. That just doesn't apply to things like the media, that's across society.

Some people simply pride themselves off of irrationality, however. Even if people accept that the problem is a system that encourages irrational behavior, by allowing inherently irrational beings (humans), to make irrational decisions, which is then used as a core basis of the outcome of what is being provided and/or produced, with a specific regard, it doesn't then have to be the case that people will respond in opposition to that. Quite to the contrary, you can have people actually accepting it as a truth, ideologically, that the fundamental essence of freedom and liberty is represented by that system.

There is such a delusion that people actually think, as JAH actually did point out, that "[they report] what people are interested in", which actually might be the case, and without taking into account the fact that the interest is one that is fundamentally based on irrationality i.e. it's not based on fully informed, thinking people with regard to optimal circumstances (or in other instances pure instinct, nature, circumstances, etc., where it is based on an imperative the person places at a high level of importance), that might actually make some sense.

You seem to have more of a problem with our governmental system/the Constitution from what I can tell-- I don't; I'm the complete opposite.

JAH and and Weeee_Zart are cool. Theists are cool. That is, I can't see what your problem is with them.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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19-04-2013, 06:09 PM
RE: Media and how it affects many things
(19-04-2013 01:14 AM)JAH Wrote:  Even now the news is fixated on the Boston Marathon attack

What does that say about the US media. Please do not say that they report what people are interested in. The media influences what the public is interested in by what they report. Anyone who suggests otherwise is not very thoughtful.

What's unique, is I think the police provided false reports to the media, and the media has gone so far as to cooperate in their reporting in order to confuse the fugitive in the Boston situation.

And the suspicion remains as to what was the cause of the fertilizer plant - that story will develop.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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19-04-2013, 06:34 PM (This post was last modified: 19-04-2013 08:49 PM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Media and how it affects many things
(19-04-2013 01:16 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  You seem to have more of a problem with our governmental system/the Constitution from what I can tell-- I don't; I'm the complete opposite.

Yeah, well you see, I think it is a lot easier to adjust/fix the tangible social contract system that guides society, than it is to try to convince people to accept the ideas of an abstract theory that is dependent on the peoples independent beliefs and interpretations, of the abstract theory, aligning correctly.


(19-04-2013 01:16 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  Well, you don't really need any ideas, it just follows, if you accept both: the problem; and the problem as something you want to fix.

First you have to accept that the problem is one of capitalism/markets, then whether or not that is actually a problem you care to fix. That just doesn't apply to things like the media, that's across society.
When you ask people to accept the description of a problem as being true, that is the offering of an idea - you stupid fuck, you.

You do not think that changes to the social contract that guides a society can have an effect, "across society"?

Are you kidding me, what the fuck are you waiting for - the second coming of Christ?!!!Weeping

(19-04-2013 01:16 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  Some people simply pride themselves off of irrationality, however. Even if people accept that the problem is a system that encourages irrational behavior, by allowing inherently irrational beings (humans), to make irrational decisions, which is then used as a core basis of the outcome of what is being provided and/or produced, with a specific regard, it doesn't then have to be the case that people will respond in opposition to that. Quite to the contrary, you can have people actually accepting it as a truth, ideologically, that the fundamental essence of freedom and liberty is represented by that system.
BowingBowingBowingBowingBowing
:smoking:You are stupid

(19-04-2013 01:16 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  There is such a delusion that people actually think, as JAH actually did point out, that "[they report] what people are interested in", which actually might be the case, and without taking into account the fact that the interest is one that is fundamentally based on irrationality i.e. it's not based on fully informed, thinking people with regard to optimal circumstances (or in other instances pure instinct, nature, circumstances, etc., where it is based on an imperative the person places at a high level of importance), that might actually make some sense.
What would be more important for people to be interested in?

(19-04-2013 01:16 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  JAH and and Weeee_Zart are cool. Theists are cool. That is, I can't see what your problem is with them.
I envy the fact that theists organize their people to do things better than atheists organize their people to do things - like delievering a better education system so people can learn the limits of reality as compared to the limits of their imaginations. I think atheists perpetuate the infinite reality just as unwittingly as the theist do.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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20-04-2013, 03:26 PM
RE: Media and how it affects many things
(19-04-2013 06:34 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Yeah, well you see, I think it is a lot easier to adjust/fix the tangible social contract system that guides society, than it is to try to convince people to accept the ideas of an abstract theory that is dependent on the peoples independent beliefs and interpretations, of the abstract theory, aligning correctly.

Even assuming that there was a problem with our constitution, what it would take to amend, change or do away with it or things in it, is about what it would take, looking at democratic power, to simply change whatever system in society one wanted to change.

It's like people who say they don't like our voting system, electoral system, party system or any thing else. It's usually based on feelings they have from not being able to get the political power that they want, at a given time-- like with gerrymandering: it's bad, until you are the one drawing up congressional districts.

For one, you must be in power to make change. Secondly, you can't think that you are not the corrupt one, rigging the system simply to work in a way that benefits you, more than your opposition-- you have to keep in mind that you are still your oppositions, opponent. No god-complex, bullshit allowed.

Personally, if people want to migrate to the left and start a revolution, great. If not, cool. If one, or the other, means society will crash and burn, just keep the fire away from me as long as possible.

Quote:When you ask people to accept the description of a problem as being true, that is the offering of an idea - you stupid fuck, you.

You do not think that changes to the social contract that guides a society can have an effect, "across society"?

Are you kidding me, what the fuck are you waiting for - the second coming of Christ?!!!Weeping

That was concerning two different things. You ask me about a specific idea, of my own, regarding "how to fix/adjust the system". I answered: don't need one. We are not out of ideas. If you accept what the problem is, pick a solution, give it a try. If you don't accept a problem, you obviously aren't in need of a solution. If you are wrong about there being no problem and something bad happens, eventually, sorry you picked the wrong door.

You can't change a social contract. It's the laws/enforcement that can be changed; however, that is not my decision, that's a collective decision.

Christ, no. I don't think that (Christ) worked out very well last time. Build or Destroy.

Quote:You are stupid

A lot of 'you' are stupid.

Being stupid is fine. It's only bad, if you are stupid, yet think otherwise.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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