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15-03-2014, 08:11 PM
RE: Medical advice
(15-03-2014 08:01 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(15-03-2014 07:41 PM)Crulax Wrote:  I wouldn't classify chiropractic medicine as weird or questionable medicine! I have been to see a chiropractor on a few occasions and have walked out every time feeling a shit ton better than when I went in as well as an inch taller!

Crulax,

Thus is what I said earlier in the thread:

There is no scientific basis for chiropractic or osteopathic medicine, both of which claim that most illnesses have their origins in "disorders of the spine and musculoskeletal system" and that manipulation of these organs can cure or ameliorate diseases.

Studies have shown that these modalities are useful to treat chronic pain syndromes, but for not much else.

Osteopathic doctors are becoming more mainstream with many abandoning the basic assumptions of their system and embracing a more scientific view of medicine - good news!

I don't have an issue if chiropractors confine their attention to back pain, where they do do some good. It's when they talk about curing heart disease or cancer by spinal manipulation that crosses over into quackery. See, for example, this:

Chiropractic cancer cure

Doc

Lol, I didn't know that people believed that shit or that some chiropractors claim it! I have only visited a chiropractor after seeing a doctor and getting a referral for my back pain! Even on the few occasions that I have just went in to one without a referral to have them straighten me out the ones that I have been to see have been pretty straight forward and told me that my back pain could be caused by something that they could not treat and that I should see my doctor if they persisted!

Onward, my faithful steed!
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15-03-2014, 08:25 PM
RE: Medical advice
I used to work with a woman that claimed her chiropractor was able to help her sinuses through alignment and massage...I am thinking it was the ultra-strong eucalyptus oil he used cause it would even clear mine when I was in the same room with her. But what do I know?

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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15-03-2014, 08:31 PM
RE: Medical advice
(15-03-2014 02:32 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(15-03-2014 09:24 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Girly, barring Vitamin D, it's very unusual to be deficient in any vitamin, trace mineral or nutrient on a Western non-vegetarian diet. Please check out the following:

Office of dietary supplements

I don't know if the supplements you're taking are harming you but by the same token, I'm not sure if they are helping you. Why did you pick those particular supplements to take?

Doc

I have to respectfully disagree with you about that...even though there's a school of thought that claims this.

Apart from vit D deficiency, I commonly see magnesium, zinc, iron, b12, omega 3 deficiencies.

Iodine deficiency is also a problem. So is selenium deficiency.

I occasionally see folate deficiency (admittedly in people with a poor diet)

Some reading...

http://www.healthyfoodguide.com.au/artic...ficiencies

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/5-common-...z2w4CMDx3z

http://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well-b...e-you-sick

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-dorf...33446.html

http://www.vitamins-and-health-facts.com...ncies.html

I know there are two distinct schools of thought regarding the use of supplements and vitamins but I am now stocked with multivitamins, calcium, B-Complex (that I know helps me), D, E, and Selenium. I used to be really good about taking vitamins every day but had gotten rather lax. At this stage I am willing to try just about anything short of chiropractors and voodoo. It's either going to help or I will have very expensive urine. If the latter happens I have lost a few bucks. If the former happens...even if it's placebo effect...it's a win.

Will see how it goes.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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15-03-2014, 08:34 PM
RE: Medical advice
My insurance company covers chiropractors. That means they ain't woo. Tongue

#sigh
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15-03-2014, 10:38 PM
RE: Medical advice
(15-03-2014 08:34 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  My insurance company covers chiropractors. That means they ain't woo. Tongue

Woo or not, they are effective at relieving some kinds of pain. I don't believe that their 'theories' have any basis, but their practice results in pain reduction.

One of my legs is shorter than the other from repeated orthopedic surgery, and I get hip, knee, and lower back pain. I injured my neck in a bike accident. The lower back and neck pain are usually relieved by chiropractic manipulation. The hip and knee, not so much.

I was once having a moderate spell of back pain and was planning on going to the chiropractor. I perched on a kitchen stool, left butt cheek on the stool, left leg on a rung, right leg on the floor. When my weight came down on the stool, I felt and heard a snap/crackle/pop from my lower back - and the pain disappeared.

I have also done something like that to my neck unexpectedly.
Seems to me to be a confirmation of what chiropractors do for this type of pain.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-03-2014, 02:48 PM
RE: Medical advice
(15-03-2014 08:31 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(15-03-2014 02:32 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I have to respectfully disagree with you about that...even though there's a school of thought that claims this.

Apart from vit D deficiency, I commonly see magnesium, zinc, iron, b12, omega 3 deficiencies.

Iodine deficiency is also a problem. So is selenium deficiency.

I occasionally see folate deficiency (admittedly in people with a poor diet)

Some reading...

http://www.healthyfoodguide.com.au/artic...ficiencies

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/5-common-...z2w4CMDx3z

http://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well-b...e-you-sick

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-dorf...33446.html

http://www.vitamins-and-health-facts.com...ncies.html

I know there are two distinct schools of thought regarding the use of supplements and vitamins but I am now stocked with multivitamins, calcium, B-Complex (that I know helps me), D, E, and Selenium. I used to be really good about taking vitamins every day but had gotten rather lax. At this stage I am willing to try just about anything short of chiropractors and voodoo. It's either going to help or I will have very expensive urine. If the latter happens I have lost a few bucks. If the former happens...even if it's placebo effect...it's a win.

Will see how it goes.

It is true that a lot of the water soluble vitamins and minerals we take are excreted by the kidneys so end up in urine. Yet it is the very fact that we put high concentrations into our blood that can "push" these things into all our cells that gives us the benefits. It's usually intracellular health that we are trying to improve....hence the benefit of taking high doses....some of it gets in and stays. The urine is only reflecting what's going on in the serum i.e. bloodstream.

A little more on this. Because we westerners eat too much hydrogenated fat or trans fatty acids our cell walls are less permeable to nutrients. Hence we need to put higher concentrations into our blood to push stuff into our cells. This is why we can have a "normal" blood test for say zinc or magnesium, yet our cells are crying out for the stuff. It is also why it's hard to do infallible test to prove some deficiencies. It's why, like most people, you "feel better" when you take megaB (which also usually contains zinc and magnesium btw)

This is one reason to take high dose omega 3's....to replace bad fats (hydrogenated or trans) with "good" i.e. omega 3's, so your cell walls get better quality fats in them and let more nutrients in.

The above is, of course, only talking in very general terms. It's not that simple. And...I'm a little "rusty" on these facts so I'm happy to be corrected about details if I'm wrong.
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16-03-2014, 03:01 PM
RE: Medical advice
(15-03-2014 08:31 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(15-03-2014 02:32 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I have to respectfully disagree with you about that...even though there's a school of thought that claims this.

Apart from vit D deficiency, I commonly see magnesium, zinc, iron, b12, omega 3 deficiencies.

Iodine deficiency is also a problem. So is selenium deficiency.

I occasionally see folate deficiency (admittedly in people with a poor diet)

Some reading...

http://www.healthyfoodguide.com.au/artic...ficiencies

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/5-common-...z2w4CMDx3z

http://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well-b...e-you-sick

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-dorf...33446.html

http://www.vitamins-and-health-facts.com...ncies.html

I know there are two distinct schools of thought regarding the use of supplements and vitamins but I am now stocked with multivitamins, calcium, B-Complex (that I know helps me), D, E, and Selenium. I used to be really good about taking vitamins every day but had gotten rather lax. At this stage I am willing to try just about anything short of chiropractors and voodoo. It's either going to help or I will have very expensive urine. If the latter happens I have lost a few bucks. If the former happens...even if it's placebo effect...it's a win.

Will see how it goes.

You will almost certainly feel better.

I must point out something just in case someone reading this gets the wrong impression. Vitamins and minerals may help prevent some cancers, but they are not a treatment in themselves. They should be used as an adjuvant to standard medical treatment, not as a replacement. (Anjele I'm not referring to your decision not to have chemotherapy...I'm just talking in general)
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16-03-2014, 03:03 PM
RE: Medical advice
(15-03-2014 08:31 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(15-03-2014 02:32 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I have to respectfully disagree with you about that...even though there's a school of thought that claims this.

Apart from vit D deficiency, I commonly see magnesium, zinc, iron, b12, omega 3 deficiencies.

Iodine deficiency is also a problem. So is selenium deficiency.

I occasionally see folate deficiency (admittedly in people with a poor diet)

Some reading...

http://www.healthyfoodguide.com.au/artic...ficiencies

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/5-common-...z2w4CMDx3z

http://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well-b...e-you-sick

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-dorf...33446.html

http://www.vitamins-and-health-facts.com...ncies.html

I know there are two distinct schools of thought regarding the use of supplements and vitamins but I am now stocked with multivitamins, calcium, B-Complex (that I know helps me), D, E, and Selenium. I used to be really good about taking vitamins every day but had gotten rather lax. At this stage I am willing to try just about anything short of chiropractors and voodoo. It's either going to help or I will have very expensive urine. If the latter happens I have lost a few bucks. If the former happens...even if it's placebo effect...it's a win.

Will see how it goes.

ps don't forget to try the magnesium powder
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01-04-2014, 02:20 AM
RE: Medical advice
Please everyone watch this...you won't regret it...

http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/TEDxIowaC...-Wahls-Min
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01-04-2014, 10:44 PM
RE: Medical advice
(01-04-2014 02:20 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Please everyone watch this...you won't regret it...

http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/TEDxIowaC...-Wahls-Min

My wife has us eating similar to this (except she is a now vegan) while I still eat meat. Fruit smoothies in the morning, lots of leafy greens etc. So far so good.

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