Meeting with a Mormon
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18-04-2013, 10:04 AM
Meeting with a Mormon
Hey folks,

I will meet an "elder" from the Mormon church next tuesday and I would be thankfull if you guys could give me some facts and informations about this church to get some arguements against this faith in more detail than just the general arguements against religion.

Greetings,
Zekaiser
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18-04-2013, 10:17 AM
RE: Meeting with a Mormon
(18-04-2013 10:04 AM)Zekaiser Wrote:  Hey folks,

I will meet an "elder" from the Mormon church next tuesday and I would be thankfull if you guys could give me some facts and informations about this church to get some arguements against this faith in more detail than just the general arguements against religion.

Greetings,
Zekaiser

Basically all you need to know is this. 1 year before starting the church of Mormon Joseph Smith was convicted of fraud. He then plagiarised the style of the King James Bible using the phrase "And so it came to Pass" in over 20% of the verses. There is much much more but it was an obvious fraud by a known conman.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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18-04-2013, 10:24 AM
RE: Meeting with a Mormon
Fact: the book claims that darker skin is a curse from god on the Namenites (sp?) for being slothful and loathsome. This was historically used to justify slavery, and later to prevent blacks from holding positions in the Mormon hierarchy. Even if they deny that it applies to blacks, it almost certainly applies to Amerindians. Thus the book is inherently racist.

He will try to change the subject or deflect, maybe try to put you on the defensive. But if you push on it for long enough he will likely get in a huff and start ranting; then you can pick up on anything embarrassing he might say.

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2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
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18-04-2013, 10:29 AM
RE: Meeting with a Mormon
Why are you meeting with this 'elder'?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-04-2013, 10:33 AM
RE: Meeting with a Mormon
More on what Revenant said, Joseph Smith's conviction involved him using a magic rock in his hat to determine where to dig a well - he'd collect a fee, consult his magic rock, tell the farmers where to dig, then be long gone by the time they dug their well and found no water. A year later he's using a magic rock in his hat to translate golden tablets an angel (Moroni) gave him, golden tablets that nobody, not even Smith's closest friends or family, ever saw. Moroni conveniently took the tablets to heaven when Smith was done translating.

He claimed the tablets were written in America in "Ancient Egyptian" hieroglyphics from around 600 B.C. Later, he translated real Egyptian hieroglyphics from real papyrus that is still available in museums today - his translations of this papyrus became "The Book of Moses" and became Mormon scripture, even though it was 2 or 3 decades after he "translated" the Book of Mormon. Oddly, once we discovered the Rosetta stone and actual scholars learned how to read Egyptian, those papyri turned out to have nothing to do with Moses at all, but rather, just some Egyptian burial practices. In other words, his inability to translate real, existing Egyptian hieroglyphics calls to question whether he really ever "translated" anything at all. Combined with no eyewitness accounts of these golden tablets and Smith's past as a conman using the same magical rock hat trick, really makes the whole thing seem extremely unlikely.

Even more telling, the Mormon church, doctrines, and covenants are riddled with Freemason imagery, rites, and secrets. Smith tried to become a Freemason but was repeatedly rejected (probably due to his lack of character) so he obviously started his own "club" using the Freemason's rituals (secret passwords, handshakes, symbols, etc.). It's very clearly an attempt by a rejected and despondent child to "take his marbles and go play by himself".

If nothing else, you'd think an Omniscient god would pick a more credible person to be his mouthpiece...

Despite that, some 14,000,000 people follow this cult created by this lying con man. It absolutely blows my mind...

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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18-04-2013, 10:39 AM
RE: Meeting with a Mormon
(18-04-2013 10:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  Why are you meeting with this 'elder'?

I've met him before for just a short time and he offerd me a secound meeting and I agreed on it.
Why?-cause I like to hear everyones opinion and point of view even if they are completely BS and have a discussion about it.
Secoundly I am suprised that we have Mormons here in Austria and I'd like to find out how much of a threat they could become to our society and what their working methods are.
And last,its kinda addicting and amuseing to me to talk with religious people.


Thanks for the quick answers so far,the black-skin-curse thing is a good naildown.
Might get him on the topic of homosexuals as well?(when he starts talking about how god loves everyone)
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18-04-2013, 10:40 AM
RE: Meeting with a Mormon
(18-04-2013 10:24 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Fact: the book claims that darker skin is a curse from god on the Namenites (sp?) for being slothful and loathsome. This was historically used to justify slavery, and later to prevent blacks from holding positions in the Mormon hierarchy. Even if they deny that it applies to blacks, it almost certainly applies to Amerindians. Thus the book is inherently racist.

It's Lamenites.

But Smith proposed that it was Cain's curse (Adam and Eve's son) that caused the black skin, carried on through Noah's son, Ham.

But, good news! In 1978, the Prophet Spencer W. Kimball had a revelation from god and the church changed its views and now it's OK to be black or Indian. So, apparently, some century and a half after Joseph Smith received the inerrant word of god that it's OK to be racist, god changed his mind.

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18-04-2013, 10:43 AM
RE: Meeting with a Mormon
Thank you Aseptic Skeptic,you are a big help and great source of informations on this subject!
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18-04-2013, 10:48 AM
RE: Meeting with a Mormon
(18-04-2013 10:40 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 10:24 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Fact: the book claims that darker skin is a curse from god on the Namenites (sp?) for being slothful and loathsome. This was historically used to justify slavery, and later to prevent blacks from holding positions in the Mormon hierarchy. Even if they deny that it applies to blacks, it almost certainly applies to Amerindians. Thus the book is inherently racist.

It's Lamenites.

But Smith proposed that it was Cain's curse (Adam and Eve's son) that caused the black skin, carried on through Noah's son, Ham.

But, good news! In 1978, the Prophet Spencer W. Kimball had a revelation from god and the church changed its views and now it's OK to be black or Indian. So, apparently, some century and a half after Joseph Smith received the inerrant word of god that it's OK to be racist, god changed his mind.

Actually that is a fairly common occurrence in the mormon church. God is very chatty with them. Started with Joe "the Conman" Smith and moved onto Brigham "Big Pappi" Young during the long transit of the mormons, basically being kicked out of one community after another. It was Brigham Young that was told by God that Harems are just a nifty idea why dontcha go and get you a wagon full of underaged women and have at em. Since then every leader of the mormon church or Prophet has had a batphone to heaven.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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18-04-2013, 10:54 AM
RE: Meeting with a Mormon
Just ask him about his lucky underwear.

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