Meeting with a pastor
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07-02-2014, 12:02 AM
RE: Meeting with a pastor
(06-02-2014 12:39 PM)donotwant Wrote:  I was at a meeting with pastor once. I had a long 5 hour debate with him after which he resigned from his post.

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donotwant FTW!!!

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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07-02-2014, 12:06 AM (This post was last modified: 07-02-2014 12:11 AM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: Meeting with a pastor
(06-02-2014 11:33 PM)Drich Wrote:  I will help you get together some honest questions if that is what you want based on your beliefs but first I must know what they are. what do you believe and why? (not looking for an argument or a chance to preach) also what kind of church is it

^^^^ DON'T pay any attention to this asshole, cleverusername.

Quote:(not looking for an argument or a chance to preach)

^^^ That is a LIE, Straight from the Pit of Hell.




(if one were to believe in such things...)

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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07-02-2014, 12:21 AM
RE: Meeting with a pastor
(06-02-2014 11:54 PM)Drich Wrote:  God's plan was to make a perfect world Put man in charge of it, and give Man a chance to either stay in that world with him forever or choose to be free from God.

And we can see by direct observation of the world that god's plan was craptastically imperfect. Fact is, if he is omniscient, he knew what he was doing all along and willingly chose to pursue a plan that included roasting most of his beloved creations in hell for all of eternity. Good fucking god.

(06-02-2014 11:54 PM)Drich Wrote:  It is through this sacrifice that God can endow anyone who A/S/K for the holy Spirit with everything that believer can comprehend. So when his time here is over and the believer has proven to himself where he would spend eternity knowing truly nothing of God (compared to what He offers on the other side) He can be at peace with the decision he has made, and know it is a true reflection of his heart.

And this is obvious by the thousands of contrary religions and billions of their followers who claim to have exactly the same qualifications for legitimacy.

(06-02-2014 11:54 PM)Drich Wrote:  
Quote:We consider the consequences of actions and deem those actions to be morally right or morally wrong.
which again is a crap standard that means nothing to anyone except those in your generation and social group.

It's not a crap standard. It's the same standard that humans have been making in every different generation and social group since we had the ability to do so. This is especially evident when we observe religious standards change and see it justified through some new interpretation of the bible that happens to fit perfectly with the current generation and/or social group. Funny that.

(06-02-2014 11:54 PM)Drich Wrote:  and the circle is complete. you don't even understand what prayer is. In the first half of luke 11 Jesus tells us how to pray and it has nothing to do with asking god to change his plans. The oppsite is true. we are to pray that God help us change what we want to match what God wants for us. "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"
Not "my" will be done..

I'll agree with you here. The standard for having prayer answered has always been: "If you are faithful enough to know god's will, then obviously you would have been praying for exactly what he made happen, because it's perfect and shit. If what you prayed for didn't happen, you need to check yourself and submit even more to religious dogma, or give more to the church, because you're not a good enough person yet, you're ideas are shit and you still deserve to burn in hell for even thinking them, but you're lucky that god did that whole crucifixion thing so you just count your lucky stars and pay no never mind that your life is shit and prayer isn't working for you."

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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07-02-2014, 12:25 AM
RE: Meeting with a pastor
ah, honest questions! Angel
(06-02-2014 07:47 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  I asked why he believed and then it kind of snowballed. He ended up asking a lot.

I asked how he could believe someone was guiding him when so many things kept going wrong.
Because what we consider to be 'good' or what we want aren't always what is good for us. sometimes the best thing is to learn to deal with and manage the bad.
Quote:I asked him how he explained all the contradictions in the Bible.
do you have any examples?
Quote:After his response to that, I asked him how he could continue to follow a religion if he thinks its holy book isn't a good book.
our understanding of 'good' is so corrupt we have lost sight of what is 'good.' For us what is 'good' is what is easy/pleasurable. again easy can sometimes be the worst thing for us.
Think of working out. Is it easy? Is it painless? Do you want to do it?No of course not, But Do you like the results? to the girls/boys/whatever like the results?
What if you only did what was easy? how would your body suffer?

Our souls/spirits work the same way. To grow in spiritual strength we must be made to face resistance. Sometimes a hard life makes better people.
Quote:I asked what he thought of all the terrible things in it.
compared to what? this society? what do our sci fi writers tell us our world be like when the money or oil runs out? what kind of world would 'we' be without our mod cons? book of eli, The road, Max max. This is what we say our society will look like when morality shifts because the trucks that bring food and gas to your city stop bring the thing that make your 'morality' possable. You are afforded the luxury of a high moral standard because our society can currently support it.

When we can't keep the dream of 20th century life alive anymore for whatever reason, the Zombies/the monsters with in ourselves kept at bay with full stomachs and A/C, will destroy what makes your current morality possable... These where the conditions that the bible and it's rules were written and given in. So if your going to compare, compare apples to apples. Look at this society not in it's current form but where we would be without the benfit of mod cons, and then ask yourself would you be as forgiving or fair as they/jews were
Quote:I asked him why there would be billions of galaxies if there's just one important planet.
is my favorite question to speculate on. I am a star trek fan...
So we have infinite galaxies and as a Christian we have an infinite existence. I would like to think we get star ships (dibs on Enterprise) and get turned loose.
Quote:When he told me he thinks there are other important planets, I asked him why God didn't bother to tell us.
not our time to know.
Quote:I asked him if he thought it was fair that billions get tortured forever simply for not being born into the right families.
I got news for you. no one is born into Christianity. The Absolute hardest people to minister to are people who think they are already 'saved.' Literally you can saved the saved... That is why I am here with the atheists.
Quote:I asked him, if heaven is paradise, what happened to those who have loved ones who don't go to heaven (are they sad, which means there are negative feelings in "paradise", or do they just not remember/care, which is creepy)?
when you were 10 did you have a favorite toy? if no think back till you did. now as you have aged, does that toy or possession have the same meaning as it did when you loved it at 10? Why? Because you grew and matured, and the relationships you had when you were 10 grew and matured with you.. Or does your dad still treat you as if you were 10 years old?

When we cross we will see each other as we really are, and not as we do now. not that there will not still be love affection or some sort of attachment, but at the same time we will have grown well past our current feelings and understanding as our capacity for love and to love will increase
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07-02-2014, 12:27 AM
RE: Meeting with a pastor
(06-02-2014 11:12 PM)toadaly Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 11:17 AM)CleverUsername Wrote:  I tried talking to my Christian dad about why he believes, and somehow it ended up with plans for me to go talk to his pastor in a week. I think I'm supposed to be asking him questions about belief, and I don't know what to ask.

Any suggestions for questions? Advice on what he might say?

Do you want to talk to the pastor? It doesn't seem like it, if you have no questions. I don't know your dad, but could you just tell him you don't want to go?

If that's not viable, then when you see the pastor, just tell him your dad sent you, and you don't really want to be there.

For some reason I just got your name and avatar! That's Great. your answer is crap because you undermining a kid and his dad, but your screen name is funny!
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07-02-2014, 12:42 AM
RE: Meeting with a pastor
(07-02-2014 12:27 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 11:12 PM)toadaly Wrote:  Do you want to talk to the pastor? It doesn't seem like it, if you have no questions. I don't know your dad, but could you just tell him you don't want to go?

If that's not viable, then when you see the pastor, just tell him your dad sent you, and you don't really want to be there.

For some reason I just got your name and avatar! That's Great. your answer is crap because you undermining a kid and his dad, but your screen name is funny!

TD's answer is AWESONE because it's encouraging a kid to think for him/herself!


YOU are a fucking liar.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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07-02-2014, 12:45 AM
RE: Meeting with a pastor
(07-02-2014 12:27 AM)Drich Wrote:  
toadaly Wrote:Do you want to talk to the pastor? It doesn't seem like it, if you have no questions. I don't know your dad, but could you just tell him you don't want to go?

If that's not viable, then when you see the pastor, just tell him your dad sent you, and you don't really want to be there.

For some reason I just got your name and avatar! That's Great. your answer is crap because you undermining a kid and his dad, but your screen name is funny!

I recommended to him that he be honest to his dad, if that's a viable option, and if not, then at least be honest to the preacher, which surely is a viable option

That you consider contemplated honesty undermining to relationships, says more about you than it does about me.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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07-02-2014, 12:56 AM
RE: Meeting with a pastor
Y'know what?

It's kinda amusing to see inside the mind of a happy slave.

A bitter / sweet pathos.

Perhaps this will be useful for you CleverUN but note that no two victims think the same because god = ego; an extension of self.

Which means that your pasta and your father might not give the same answers.

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07-02-2014, 03:24 AM
RE: Meeting with a pastor
Cleverusername,

is your anal sphincter still intact?

Sorry to be so direct, but I've been concerned about your welfare.
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07-02-2014, 04:11 AM
RE: Meeting with a pastor
(06-02-2014 07:47 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  I asked him, if heaven is paradise, what happened to those who have loved ones who don't go to heaven (are they sad, which means there are negative feelings in "paradise", or do they just not remember/care, which is creepy)?

Fantastic! I'll be remembering that one!
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