Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
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11-11-2017, 10:41 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(11-11-2017 03:11 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 07:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  It does not happen every year, it doesn't even happen on every orbit of Jupiter.
You are looking at an ephemeral event and incorrectly assuming that it would have been seen then (whenever then was).


Actually that's not true. As the Wiki page I posted explains, the orbits of the planets have been the same for thousands of years. This configuration is only "transient" in it appears at a certain time of the year.

You really don't get how it works. Facepalm
It is the relative period of the orbits of Earth and Jupiter that is the governing factor. Since they are not synchronized, the pattern does not repeat.
IT DOES NOT HAPPEN EVERY YEAR.

Quote:You've gone from saying there was no "cross" to saying that it's transient.

That's disingenuous and displays bias.

Try reading for comprehension. I said the pattern you perceive does not repeat.

Quote: Here's how you come across: "It's not there...ok, it is but it's only transient...ok, so it's there at Christmas...but that's just you, you ignorant c.nt. with your crazy beliefs".

See above.

Quote:And, the worst part is, it's not my "belief". It's simply an observation. What you do with it, is for you. I've not told anyone they have to agree with me, or that I have any credentials or should be taken as posting this in any way which is serious or of any great consequence to me or to anyone, to be frank. Why you have to then twist things around is your own "problem" which YOU need to own, buddy.

You "observation" is meaningless and you don't even understand what you are seeing. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-11-2017, 11:22 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
Ok. So I don't wanna read 20 pages of posts but what I'm getting is that Delta thinks that because once in a while stars and planets align to make a cross in the sky this means Jesus is the son of a god? Is this correct. Laugh out load

Um... he/she needs to read the religious myths from other cultures who observed the sky and then interpreted various configuration of the stars to align with their beliefs. American Indians and Hindus all have sky stories. Most religions use the sky to reinforce their beliefs. Christianity is just another myth with a sky story.


Geesh! I tell ya.....sometimes I wonder about people. Facepalm

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11-11-2017, 11:50 AM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2017 11:55 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(11-11-2017 11:22 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Ok. So I don't wanna read 20 pages of posts but what I'm getting is that Delta thinks that because once in a while stars and planets align to make a cross in the sky this means Jesus is the son of a god? Is this correct. Laugh out load

He claimed that Jupiter forms a cross with three stars, each year, around x-mas. He claimed to have seen this annualy and exactly 5 years ago. He speculated that ancient people possibly have attributed some significance to this.

I demonstrated by using a simple online orrery and with simple grasp of abstraction of 2 bodies circling in a unsynched 11/1 ratio (and tilted orbits!) that:

#1 Jupiter can bee seen in the sky near Orion only every 12 years
#2 not every year, or 5 years
#3 Jupiter quickly passes there around x-mas, but then stays for an extended period of time somewhere else for a long time.
#3 Jupiters passage in this area happens in different locations every 12 years. In fact so obviously different that any ancient civilisation including the Sumerians (who could calculate Orbits of Venus down to a few hours and phases of the moon down to seconds) would have noticed that this is not exactly the same alignment like 12y ago

If Delta wants to claim or speculate that someone up to 5000 years ago has looked at the sky and noticed that Jupiter passes near Orion every 12 years and attributed something special to this, then he also must claim that an anstronomical standard (regarding precision and accuracy of repetition) must have been used that was lower than at any time in recorded history and maybe even earlier.

This is particularly ironic, since its Delta who is usually trying to suggest these ancient civilisations were far more advanced that we usually think.

I call this: connecting dots

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11-11-2017, 10:59 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2017 11:28 PM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(11-11-2017 11:50 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(11-11-2017 11:22 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Ok. So I don't wanna read 20 pages of posts but what I'm getting is that Delta thinks that because once in a while stars and planets align to make a cross in the sky this means Jesus is the son of a god? Is this correct. Laugh out load

He claimed that Jupiter forms a cross with three stars, each year, around x-mas. He claimed to have seen this annualy and exactly 5 years ago. He speculated that ancient people possibly have attributed some significance to this.

I demonstrated by using a simple online orrery and with simple grasp of abstraction of 2 bodies circling in a unsynched 11/1 ratio (and tilted orbits!) that:

#1 Jupiter can bee seen in the sky near Orion only every 12 years
#2 not every year, or 5 years
#3 Jupiter quickly passes there around x-mas, but then stays for an extended period of time somewhere else for a long time.
#3 Jupiters passage in this area happens in different locations every 12 years. In fact so obviously different that any ancient civilisation including the Sumerians (who could calculate Orbits of Venus down to a few hours and phases of the moon down to seconds) would have noticed that this is not exactly the same alignment like 12y ago

If Delta wants to claim or speculate that someone up to 5000 years ago has looked at the sky and noticed that Jupiter passes near Orion every 12 years and attributed something special to this, then he also must claim that an anstronomical standard (regarding precision and accuracy of repetition) must have been used that was lower than at any time in recorded history and maybe even earlier.

This is particularly ironic, since its Delta who is usually trying to suggest these ancient civilisations were far more advanced that we usually think.

I call this: connecting dots

Oh, gee... Except you're wrong. I watch this every year and it's exactly the same, so whatever your calculations are, they're wrong. Sorry, I prefer just to look up at the sky and see for myself. I said I've seen it every year for the past five years, in exactly the same place each year, so I don't know what you are talking about, using this five year period. I never said that. It just happened that I noticed it for the first time five years ago. The info I posted from Wiki states that planets have the same, stable orbits for tens of thousands of years, well beyond recorded history. So, yes, ancients saw the same thing. Orion is only dominant at Christmas so it appears with the stars and Jupiter forming the cross, in the same place, each year. Again, it seems to be a habit here of making up something I didn't say, attributing it to me and then saying you've disproved it and claiming some kind of victory, then adding an insult. It's a very strange way to behave.

By the way, all the zodiac signs are comprised of a ruling planet and stars. It's called the "domicile" of the planet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domicile_(astrology)
And modern Western astrology origninated here, where I live, in the Fertile Crescent: "Western astrology, one of the oldest astrological systems still in use, can trace its roots to 19th–17th century BCE Mesopotamia, from which it spread to Ancient Greece, Rome, the Arab world and eventually Central and Western Europe" Wiki-Astrology

Honestly, you've just got this completely wrong.
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11-11-2017, 11:03 PM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
On the topic of megalyths, I found a video showing how to move large stones easily. The cross beam of Stone Henge would just be teetetottered up between the supporting pillars and then swung round, and dropped down.



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11-11-2017, 11:52 PM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2017 12:05 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
I did a quick google search and Jupiter is referred to in relation to Orion and is in the same place from year to year. First, in 2011:
http://epod.usra.edu/blog/2011/10/rising...piter.html

Then in 2014: https://www.space.com/24493-jupiter-s-bl...video.html

And here's another image of Jupiter in the same location as my previously posted image:

[Image: 11311276_444754569035631_823154931_n.jpg...MTA1MzUz.2]


Anyway, the simple point is that the Jesus story relates to events in Judea and seems to have overtones of a pre-existing astrologically based set of beliefs. That's all I was pointing out. I'm not an astronomer nor do I have any interest in astrology. What I was suggesting was that I don't accept the Christ Myth theories because they suggest that this astronomical basis for the Jesus story is the answer. I don't accept that because the fact that ancient people may have attributed meaning to star formations and made up myths about them doesn't mean that the Jesus story is purely a myth. It may only incorporate some aspects of this belief system. That's all. I think you are all getting more hung up on insulting me for the sake of it, and then having to ignore an obvious collocation of a planet and some stars which is plain for all to see, rather than understanding what I am saying, which is intended to debunk the Christ Myth theory, and, actually, also the Jesus as magic man theory. All I've ever said is that there are both astrological bases for some of the Jesus story and ALSO historical figures of the time which can account for the story, by creating a "story" around them.
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12-11-2017, 04:27 AM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2017 05:06 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(11-11-2017 10:59 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Oh, gee... Except you're wrong. I watch this every year and it's exactly the same, so whatever your calculations are, they're wrong.
I used an online orrery, availiable to everyone, even you.
What you are doing now, is doubling down on your wrong claims, closing your eyes, sticking your fingers into your ears and...you know what.. I am actually disappointed by you. You are acting exactly like so many theists that come in here when they have been demonstrated to be wrong.

(11-11-2017 10:59 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I said I've seen it every year for the past five years, in exactly the same place each year
DO.YOU.UNDERSTAND.WHAT.AN.11YEAR.ORBITAL.PERIOD.MEANS.OBSERVED.FROM.A.POSITION.INSIDE.THIS.ORBIT?​
Yes or no? No bullshit evasions please. YES OR NO?

The picture is a simulation of 2007 (and will repeat in 2018/2019). Looking at Jupiter you have to face away from Orion, for the whole year. How can you see Jupiter next to Orion? Please explain! Dont just go "Nuuhh uhh".
[Image: Delta-16.jpg]

(11-11-2017 10:59 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  It just happened that I noticed it for the first time five years ago.
Fife years ago Jupiter was in the Charioteer. This picure below from an online simulation (not "my calculation" by the way) disproves your claim. Bring on your evidence other than "personal revelation" please. Go anywhere on the web and show me a simulation that shows something different than this picure below.
[Image: Delta-15.jpg]


(11-11-2017 10:59 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The info I posted from Wiki states that planets have the same, stable orbits for tens of thousands of years, well beyond recorded history. So, yes, ancients saw the same thing.
Nobody disputed that. But that doesnt mean the sky looks exactly the same each year. Only the stars in the sky look the same each year. You dont understand basic Kepler stuff, basic astronomy. Thats not your biggest problem tho. Your problem is: You dont admit to your ignorance and thus wont/cant learn. I am justt trying to help you.

(11-11-2017 10:59 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Orion is only dominant at Christmas so it appears with the stars and Jupiter forming the cross, in the same place, each year.
Dominant, as in Dominant per astrology? What does dominant mean? Does dominant mean that Jupiter is in the constellation of Orion? I couldnt find this. Please provide evidence that:
#1 Astrology claims Jupiter to be in Orion each year
#2 Astronomy confirming this woo-ish claim
Because: Astrology is woo, you know, but astronomy isnt.

If by the way, you want to discuss Astrology, please have this thread moved to the (pseudo)science part of the forum.

(11-11-2017 10:59 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  By the way, all the zodiac signs are comprised of a ruling planet and stars. It's called the "domicile" of the planet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domicile_(astrology)
A link to an astrology article? Nice, but i am not interested in woo.
But where does it state that Jupiter can be seen near Orion every year, according to your claim?

(11-11-2017 10:59 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  And modern Western astrology origninated here, where I live, in the Fertile Crescent: "Western astrology, one of the oldest astrological systems still in use, can trace its roots to 19th–17th century BCE Mesopotamia, from which it spread to Ancient Greece, Rome, the Arab world and eventually Central and Western Europe" Wiki-Astrology
So astrology woo has been practiced since ages. Nice. The relevance to your claims about Jupiter is? Astonomy is relevant to your claims about Jupiter. You should invest more time into this, and a basic understanding of it. Seriously!

P.S.: Do you think astrology has something to it, anything? Just so we have clear positions on this discussion table here.

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12-11-2017, 04:45 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(11-11-2017 11:52 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I did a quick google search and Jupiter is referred to in relation to Orion and is in the same place from year to year. First, in 2011:
http://epod.usra.edu/blog/2011/10/rising...piter.html
Here is your picture, and my simulation. They both show the same. Jupiter being far to the east of Jupiter. Not forming a cross or whatever.
So wtf are you even talking about? Jupiter forming a cross each year? Jupiter being at or near Orion each year? It doesnt matter at all what "each year" claims you make, Jupiter is opposite of Orion in the sky for a part of its 11y orbit.
yes Jupiter can be seen for a few years in a row roughly (very roughly) near orion, somewhere from west of it to somewhere east of it.
Your original claim was that you can see it, every year, west of Orion, forming a celestial cross. You provided a picture even. Dont make me dig it out, please! Do you still keep this claim up?

If you had the most basic grasp of astronomy you would know all this!

By the way. Even the caption of your picure says
Quote:The brilliant “star” at upper right center is Jupiter
When facing eastwards (and slightly north) "upper right" means "far to the east of".
[Image: 6a0105371bb32c970b0162fbc9c0ac970d-pi]
[Image: Delta-17.jpg]

"Same location", Jupiter being near the Whale Twins or Bull is "same location", seriously?
Seriously?
(11-11-2017 11:52 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  And here's another image of Jupiter in the same location as my previously posted image:

[Image: 11311276_444754569035631_823154931_n.jpg...MTA1MzUz.2]

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12-11-2017, 04:47 AM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2017 04:52 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
Hmmm...

Here's an explanation of the phenomenon:


" Christmas night, December 25, look in the east just after sunset to see the nearly full moon next to the bright planet Jupiter.

If Christmas this year offers a midnight clear, stargazers could catch a view of a gorgeous close pass of the planet Jupiter and the glowing moon. Here are some commonly asked questions about the Christmas night sky:

What's that bright star beside the moon?

Astronomers often get asked that question when the moon passes close to a bright star or planet. On Christmas night, Dec. 25, the answer will be: the planet Jupiter.


Astronomers call this a conjunction. With the moon rolling through all of the zodiac constellations every month, it gets "up close" with all of the planets and several bright stars at various times, though few conjunctions are as close and bright as this one will be.

Don't wait until Christmas night to look for this. If you look the night before, on Christmas Eve (Dec. 24), Jupiter will be in almost the same place, but the moon will be well off toward the west.


Is there always a star next to the moon?

No, but many people make this incorrect observation, which comes about for two different reasons. First of all, it's physically impossible.

There is currently an interesting situation that could cause some people to conclude that there is always a bright planet in the east.

Look to the east just after sunset, and you'll see Jupiter there. Twelve hours later, just before sunrise, look to the east again and you'll still see a bright planet, but in this case, it's Venus.

If you forget about the fact that Earth has completed half a rotation in that time, bringing a whole new "sky" into view, you'd conclude, incorrectly, that there is always a bright planet in the east.

Is that the Star of Bethlehem?

At this time of year, many people are interested in the Christmas story, and astronomers are often asked about the Star of Bethlehem mentioned in the Bible.

Most modern biblical scholars believe that the Star of Bethlehem was added to the Bible a couple of centuries after the events took place.
First of all, it was not a nova or a supernova. We know this because astronomers in China were keeping close tabs on the sky, and noted many novas and supernovas, but none around the time of Christ's birth.

An unusual conjunction, like the one we will see on Christmas night, is a much more likely candidate. The "wise men" were probably astrologers, and kept close watch on conjunctions between the moon and stars and planets. There were several striking conjunctions around that time which might have led the wise men to conclude something important was happening. A close conjunction in the east would have even led them in the right direction.

So, enjoy this pretty sight for itself on Christmas night, but also give a thought to what a similar sight might have meant 2,000 years ago.
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12-11-2017, 04:54 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
So, always the same planet next to the moon at that time. Please, stop. You are wrong... It's got nothing to do with "astronomy". The planets have not shifted their orbit in the last 2000 years.
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