Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
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20-09-2017, 06:04 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
People were as intelligent as we are tens of thousands of years ago. But they didn't have an industrial base to exploit that intelligence. They certainly didn't have an "super science". Speakers in my Anthropology classes suggested that a small population meant fewer very high quality minds, meaning the inspirations were farther apart. As our population grew we had more chances for these VHQ people, but they could only do so much with the means available in Stone Age or Bronze Age societies.

And I wonder why people accept the Prime Directive so readily but don't want it applied to Earth?
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20-09-2017, 07:21 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
[Image: IMG_6502.JPG]

[Image: anigif_enhanced-26851-1450298712-2.gif]
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20-09-2017, 08:09 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(20-09-2017 06:04 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  People were as intelligent as we are tens of thousands of years ago. But they didn't have an industrial base to exploit that intelligence.

Exactly. They certainly didn thave stone age computers. So they certainly couldnt have been "advanced" beyond a certain tech. Its not them being far more advanced in technology, but our failure to imagine what can be achieved with a certain tech.

However

Since the pace of technological advance was much, much slower (stone age lasted thousands of years, industrial age only 100) they had much, much more time to get used to their current tech and optimise it.
We in return cant fathom this anymore, since our tech is so far beyond theirs, we dont have to extensively think about theirs anymore. We just cant fathom what can actually be done with stone age tech only!

Example:
I actually watched the docu about debunking all this alien bullshit. At some point the topic of "sawing stone" came up, and the pro alien guys argue that with copper you cant hardly have sawed anything harder than limestone (granite for example for pharaos sarcophagus).
But what do we actually learn from archaeology? Copper tainted (even intentionally intentionally!) with arsenic or other substances can be made considerably harder! It is also possible to use sand (!) with a copper blade for sawing. There are lots of grains hard enough in the sand to efficiently saw granite even.
So, no you dont need laser cutter bullshit alien tech. A copper blade with some % arsenic and simple addition of sand (which they had in abundance *facepalm*) works too.

Thats what i call ingenuity. People always forget that "clever" can mean two things:

#1 inventing some new kickass tech
#2 optimizing your availiable tech to a level formerly not beleived to be possible

both in order to get almost unbelievable results.

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20-09-2017, 08:43 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
You don't even have to alloy the copper. I've seen stone masons in action on the Giza Plateau, using ancient tools. When they wanted to saw something they just put sand in the crevice and it abraded the stone nicely. The copper tools eventually get used up, but they had a lot of it. They had men whose sole job was sharpening blunted copper chisels.
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20-09-2017, 11:45 AM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2017 12:07 PM by 4321lynx.)
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
For most intriguing and oldest finds in stone technology see Wiki on Gobekli Tepe

This will take you to the article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bek...al_context

And Megaliths etc in general, all over the world, that you may find interesting, are here (and the whole website is worth exploring) :

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?...um&forum=1

And then there's this :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ar...nt_and_age

And THE MOST ANCIENT CITY IN THE AMERICAS, :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caral

my favourite because I've been there, but now dethroned from that position by

Recent developments -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandurria,_Peru

In 2007, additional radio-carbon dates have been obtained. According to Alejandro Chu Barrera, the director of the Archaeological Project of Bandurria, the site is now dated firmly to 3200 BC. This is older than Caral, the more famous site in the River Supe Valley to the north, that has previously been described as 'the oldest city in the New World'.[1] Caral is located 33 km northeast of Bandurria.[2]

Bandurria has similar architecture to Caral and several other sites in the Supe Valley, featuring a sunken circular plaza and stairways. There are also other related structures constructed in a symmetrical pattern.[3]

There are also other coastal sites in Peru that have been dated very early as the result of recent excavations. They include Sechin Bajo with the oldest radiocarbon dates of 3600 BC, and Huaricanga, dated to about 3500 BC.
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27-09-2017, 07:39 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(19-09-2017 02:18 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-09-2017 01:17 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Hey!

I didn't create these theories. I just read them. The internet and Youtube is flooded with channels about ancient technology these days. When I was a kid, back in the 60's it was commonly accepted that the world was about 4000 years old, based on the timeline of the Old Testament. Dinosaurs were an inconvenient fact which people didn't talk much about and nothing was taught about them in any course I took at school.

At university, in undergrad, our student newspaper had a running debate between creationists and evolutionists and it was not unusual for students in science courses to write letters to the editor citing geological findings which they said debunked evolution.

Here's an example of the sort "scientific" evidence put forward:

Robinson31 claimed that overthrusts are based on geophysical evidence and not out-of-order fossils. This is true for some, but the Lewis overthrust in Montana and Alberta (figures 9–11) was identified based on fossils. In the Lewis “overthrust”, Precambrian rocks supposedly slid tens of kilometers eastward up a low slope over “Cretaceous” rocks. There is a 900 Ma out-of-order time gap at the Lewis “overthrust”, and this time gap was first based on out-of-order fossils. Bailey Willis32 first hypothesized the “overthrust” in 1902 after he found “Precambrian crustacean shells” in the upper block above the “Cretaceous” strata. The Lewis Overthrust may or may not be a true overthrust, but the determination should be made by geological and geophysical methods and not by fossils.
https://creation.com/geologic-column-global-sequence

The point is that this type of view is still prevalent, and I didn't spend the next 30 or 40 years of my life looking into ancient history or archaeology so the advent of the internet and all these people with their channels on Youtube about ancient technology is something I only came across or thought about in the past...couple of months.

In Suetonius' "The Twelve Caesars", one of the Caesars (I'd have to hunt for the page) is approached by a builder with a proposal to use a piece of machinery he has designed to move very large stones but the proposal is rejected by the Caesar because the method used at the time, ie., laborers, created jobs and he didn't want to upset workers by using the machine.

My view of all this is that there may have been technologies which the ancients employed which most people don't know about. There's no doubt at all that the Romans used concrete, something I had no inkling of until a year or so ago. They could also move very large blocks of stone. They could also cut straight lines in rock. None of this justifies "alien visitation" theories.

As for pyramid building, my guess is that the wealth of the Egypt relates to its geographic location between the Red Sea and the Mediterranean and the possibility that there were canals connecting the two. This placed them at the center of trade between East and West. One way of spreading the wealth and keeping control of the population was to use religion to deify the leaders and to pay people to construct pyramids to glorify the Pharoahs and spread the wealth. I've never had any issue with the idea that the pyramids were build using carved blocks of stone. Neither would I be particularly upset if someone proved scientifically that some of the blocks were poured in situ. I don't have anything invested in either theory.

Beyond that, I don't have anything useful to add to the conversation. I do find it odd to read theories that the pyramids were some kind of electric generation stations or nuclear power plants. I have no idea how or why people come up with these ideas.

Some of the supporters of these theories point to the shafts in the pyramids and suggest they resemble the construction of nuclear power plants.

I also came across another explanation of one of the shafts, one of which at a certain time of the year pointed towards a star representing Isis. Apparently, so the theory goes, the Pharoah would have a golden Phallus strapped on, lie down in the central chamber of the pyramid and point the phallus up the shaft to impregnate Isis.

I don't believe or disbelieve this but, given the smutty nature of Egyptian religion and society I suppose I would "prefer" this explanation to the power plant theories. But then, I have a smutty mind myself.

I do, however, think that the ancients were more advanced than we give them credit for and that "civilization" is much older than most people think. I'd like to get some idea of how old civilization is. That was the purpose of this thread, not to put forward any particular theory, none of which I have any particular preference for (apart from the golden phallus of course...lol)

I actually have also noticed lately how much of 'thing' what you're describing is on YouTube. Wow. Scary. SO many dingy people who mostly all say "Wow that's amazing, they must have had help from aliens", or the equivalent. So yea, I do get how much crazy is out there, I have to stay away from YouTube, to keep my sanity, or what's left of it. The phallus thing did play a part in the annual celebration (as I remember) of the Egyptian creation myth. I don't remember much about it, or which temple(s) celebrated it .. there are wall paintings in one of the temples concerning it. But, the thing you are right-on about, is the positioning of the shafts. I think astronomers have corrected for precession, and figured out which stars the shafts were aligned with, and their significance. In fact the placement/positioning of the three Giza pyramids reflects the positions of the stars in Orion's belt, in the night sky, according to some.
http://www.math.nus.edu.sg/aslaksen/gem-...page02.htm
http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/pyra...hafts.html

It seems that the "ancients" were advanced in the sense that the technology of the "Flintstones" is more advanced than that of cavemen. We seem to assume that people back then were stupid.

One aspect of this for me was that when I first moved out here to the Levant, I was watching Eritrean TV on satellite. It's pretty lousy programming and they have a night screen with just a map of the region. I noticed that the spelling of Suez used by Eritreans is something like "Suweisse" and I got a bit of a chill. Here we are looking for people who are "advanced" and were highly precise and the land next to Egypt has a name similar to "Swiss". Of course, it's pure conjecture that the Swiss migrated from the Suez peninusula but it makes more sense that it was a European tribe living in the Middle East who built these megaliths than spacemen.

With Youtube, you get one guy saying how the Pyramids contain the measurements of the planet including its circumference and that "no one knows" how they did this. Then, the next video is about how the ancients calculated the circumference of the globe by erecting two very high poles which were at some distance from each other. Since the surface of the planet is curved, the poles would be further apart at the top than the bottom so they could use this difference to calculate the circumference of the globe.

Also, you get one thread of channels on Youtube about very ancient civilisations in South America being responsible for building megalithic structures, not recent civilizations, and then you get other channels which hypothesise that these structures are of recent construction by the Carthaginians of North Africa and they show evidence of European DNA among South American peoples. http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/pbs-ch...in-146-bce

Then there's the idea that people migrated by boat a lot earlier than we think and could have taken technologies with them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columb...t_theories
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27-09-2017, 07:49 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(20-09-2017 07:21 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  [Image: IMG_6502.JPG]

This raises a very interesting question. Suppose there is a "god" or "aliens" who could have devoted vast energies to creating a hugely complex universe or technologies to visit far flung planets and take superior technologies with them to do incredible things like, for instance...make flat surfaces in stone...wow.

And, the end product of this is what? We have the internet, people being able to do almost anything from anywhere, all over the planet. We have reached the apotheosis of civilisation, particularly in the most advanced nation on earth, the "exceptionalist" USA.

And, what do we get? A penetrating analysis of the human condition? No, a gargoyle sucking his knob. Oh, and a dotard as leader of the free world. Hey, I've seen it all now. I can die happy.
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27-09-2017, 08:04 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(27-09-2017 07:39 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(19-09-2017 02:18 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I actually have also noticed lately how much of 'thing' what you're describing is on YouTube. Wow. Scary. SO many dingy people who mostly all say "Wow that's amazing, they must have had help from aliens", or the equivalent. So yea, I do get how much crazy is out there, I have to stay away from YouTube, to keep my sanity, or what's left of it. The phallus thing did play a part in the annual celebration (as I remember) of the Egyptian creation myth. I don't remember much about it, or which temple(s) celebrated it .. there are wall paintings in one of the temples concerning it. But, the thing you are right-on about, is the positioning of the shafts. I think astronomers have corrected for precession, and figured out which stars the shafts were aligned with, and their significance. In fact the placement/positioning of the three Giza pyramids reflects the positions of the stars in Orion's belt, in the night sky, according to some.
http://www.math.nus.edu.sg/aslaksen/gem-...page02.htm
http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/pyra...hafts.html

It seems that the "ancients" were advanced in the sense that the technology of the "Flintstones" is more advanced than that of cavemen. We seem to assume that people back then were stupid.

One aspect of this for me was that when I first moved out here to the Levant, I was watching Eritrean TV on satellite. It's pretty lousy programming and they have a night screen with just a map of the region. I noticed that the spelling of Suez used by Eritreans is something like "Suweisse" and I got a bit of a chill. Here we are looking for people who are "advanced" and were highly precise and the land next to Egypt has a name similar to "Swiss". Of course, it's pure conjecture that the Swiss migrated from the Suez peninusula but it makes more sense that it was a European tribe living in the Middle East who built these megaliths than spacemen.

With Youtube, you get one guy saying how the Pyramids contain the measurements of the planet including its circumference and that "no one knows" how they did this. Then, the next video is about how the ancients calculated the circumference of the globe by erecting two very high poles which were at some distance from each other. Since the surface of the planet is curved, the poles would be further apart at the top than the bottom so they could use this difference to calculate the circumference of the globe.

Also, you get one thread of channels on Youtube about very ancient civilisations in South America being responsible for building megalithic structures, not recent civilizations, and then you get other channels which hypothesise that these structures are of recent construction by the Carthaginians of North Africa and they show evidence of European DNA among South American peoples. http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/pbs-ch...in-146-bce

Then there's the idea that people migrated by boat a lot earlier than we think and could have taken technologies with them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columb...t_theories

How charming. A racist theory now too. What, black people are intrinsically backward and couldn't possibly build anything impressive? Based of some ridiculous notion that Suez is spelled the same as Swiss? Dodgy Fuck off. You've got to be trolling.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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27-09-2017, 08:33 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(27-09-2017 08:04 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 07:39 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  It seems that the "ancients" were advanced in the sense that the technology of the "Flintstones" is more advanced than that of cavemen. We seem to assume that people back then were stupid.

One aspect of this for me was that when I first moved out here to the Levant, I was watching Eritrean TV on satellite. It's pretty lousy programming and they have a night screen with just a map of the region. I noticed that the spelling of Suez used by Eritreans is something like "Suweisse" and I got a bit of a chill. Here we are looking for people who are "advanced" and were highly precise and the land next to Egypt has a name similar to "Swiss". Of course, it's pure conjecture that the Swiss migrated from the Suez peninusula but it makes more sense that it was a European tribe living in the Middle East who built these megaliths than spacemen.

With Youtube, you get one guy saying how the Pyramids contain the measurements of the planet including its circumference and that "no one knows" how they did this. Then, the next video is about how the ancients calculated the circumference of the globe by erecting two very high poles which were at some distance from each other. Since the surface of the planet is curved, the poles would be further apart at the top than the bottom so they could use this difference to calculate the circumference of the globe.

Also, you get one thread of channels on Youtube about very ancient civilisations in South America being responsible for building megalithic structures, not recent civilizations, and then you get other channels which hypothesise that these structures are of recent construction by the Carthaginians of North Africa and they show evidence of European DNA among South American peoples. http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/pbs-ch...in-146-bce

Then there's the idea that people migrated by boat a lot earlier than we think and could have taken technologies with them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columb...t_theories

How charming. A racist theory now too. What, black people are intrinsically backward and couldn't possibly build anything impressive? Based of some ridiculous notion that Suez is spelled the same as Swiss? Dodgy Fuck off. You've got to be trolling.

GaspShocking

You missed the point entirely. I was pointing out how there are theories on the internet about alien technology being needed to make flat stone surfaces while at the same time there are theories, on the internet, which suggest that peoples who had these technologies migrated to other parts of the world by boat.

I didn't say I accepted either. I certainly don't think that making a flat surface on stone requires any technology which is beyond the capabilities of "modern" man. We just assume that the "modern" age started much later than it did, and that all migration was by land.

There is no reason to start accusing people of being racist and you shouldn't do that on a false basis. You raised the word "black". I didn't. Nothing in my post relates to black people. My post has to do with Carthaginians and South Americans. South Americans are by all accounts descended from people from Asia, not Africa.
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05-10-2017, 10:50 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
I was wondering if there are any articles on the social and economic structure of ancient Egypt anyone has come across? It occurred to me that the Pyramids may have been built as a means of a political and socio-economic control.

If these ancient societies were tribal in nature with top down control and the wealth concentrated at the top, it was surely important to ensure that the populace didn't revolt against them because of their immense wealth alongside immense poverty. Egypt is located around the Nile delta, giving it access to the Mediterranean, Africa and the Red Sea. There was a canal which linked the Nile with the Red Sea which is referred to as the Canal of the Pharoahs. This put Egypt at the centre of world trade which would probably accounts for the wealth which allowed them to build the Pyramids. They obviously had to pay workers to build this.

It seems to me this is how they controlled the population and maintained their rule and suggest to me that the Pyramids were built, not as tombs, but as monuments which were part of Egyptian religion, in which the Pharoahs were gods. We tend to talk only about the cultural and archaeological significance of the Pyramids and not the fact that huge number of people worked on them in order to earn a living. Maybe they were like a perpetual Tennessee Valley Authority dam building project. The workers got paid, promoting the loyalty of the workers to the wealthy ruling class, and, if they were built as some kind of temple or monument to the religion of the time, then it was part of a program of indoctrination of the public into whatever religion or ideology of the time.

Hmmm.... In order to maintain a large army, the soldiers would need jobs in peace time. So the Pharoahs created a work project in order to spread the wealth and put themselves at the center of the ideology in which they were gods and these structures reinforced that ideology.

Something similar has been taking place in Turkey over the last decades. The government pays to have Mosques built and local businessmen get contracts to build them. Some of the new ones are huge, but no one goes to Mosque. They are all empty and many can't even pay their municipal taxes. If you drive through Turkey you can hear the Call to Prayer wherever you are. It's played over loudspeakers and you can hear it for miles. It's a very odd thing because at the end of every Call to Prayer, you hear a series of beeps, like the guy doing the Call to Prayer is calling his wife on a mobile phone. This is really big business and only the most wealthy people are given contracts to build the Mosques. They are all made of concrete. No sophisticated architecture at all. It's a way of creating loyalty among the wealthy and the poor because the poor then hear the Call, and physically, the buildings dominate the landscape, reminding people of the power of their god and his presence among them.

The actual message of the Call to Prayer is irrelevant. It's in Arabic, so no one can understand what is being said, but people know what it says, ie., Allah is the only god and Mohammed is his prophet.
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