Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
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05-10-2017, 11:50 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
For fuck's sake, grow up.
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05-10-2017, 09:50 PM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
The idea that people were paid to build these edifices, over hundred if not thousand of years means that there was permanent class of people who depended on them for their livelihood. How is that not a form of redistribution of wealth? What were they producing which was of use to anyone? Unless you subscribe to the theory that these were nuclear reactors, https://www.metabunk.org/pyramid-power-p...ed.t4959/, they have no economic value.

I suppose most people just go with the flow, that the pharoahs just ordered people to build them as tombs and "hey presto" they were built. Or maybe aliens...lol

In the process they developed a technology which allowed them to make flat surfaces, lift very heavy objects and maybe they had figured out that the world rotated on its axis and as a result they were able to align the Great Pyramid with true north.

Here is one comment I found from something calle "The National":

Giza’s pyramids were built by appropriating Egyptian labour: they represented a transfer of wealth, time and income from the kingdom’s slaves to the government of Pharaoh Khufu.

But their exact overall contribution to the economy of the Old Kingdom of Egypt is unclear.

This is not because monuments are of dubious economic value – the tourism revenue alone makes Khufu’s construction plans look visionary.

The problem is that slaves subsidise their masters – their welfare and labour power are traded for their masters’ output.

Not everything that their masters produce, therefore, is new output. Much of it represents a transfer of income, and not an increase in overall income.

Had the slaves not been working to build an Ozymandian comment on hubris and mortality, they might have been fishing or farming or crafting pots – the mainstays of the pre-Modern Egyptian economy.

This is one of the earliest examples of the economic concept of crowding out."

The author says that this is an example of transfer of wealth "from" the slaves to the Pharoahs, but surely that's wrong. What is the Pharoah getting in return for his "output". And, if it wasn't something which was supported by the masses, how could a society endure for so long without people rising up against a needless expenditure on a tomb for one person?

My point is that they played a role in Egyptian society of employing a vast number people in a project which would have been enormously expensive, and to construct what...why? It only makes sense if the population bought into it and these things had a value to Egyptian society.
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06-10-2017, 03:25 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(05-10-2017 09:50 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The idea that people were paid to build these edifices, over hundred if not thousand of years means that there was permanent class of people who depended on them for their livelihood. How is that not a form of redistribution of wealth? What were they producing which was of use to anyone? Unless you subscribe to the theory that these were nuclear reactors, https://www.metabunk.org/pyramid-power-p...ed.t4959/, they have no economic value.

I suppose most people just go with the flow, that the pharoahs just ordered people to build them as tombs and "hey presto" they were built. Or maybe aliens...lol

In the process they developed a technology which allowed them to make flat surfaces, lift very heavy objects and maybe they had figured out that the world rotated on its axis and as a result they were able to align the Great Pyramid with true north.

Here is one comment I found from something calle "The National":

Giza’s pyramids were built by appropriating Egyptian labour: they represented a transfer of wealth, time and income from the kingdom’s slaves to the government of Pharaoh Khufu.

But their exact overall contribution to the economy of the Old Kingdom of Egypt is unclear.

This is not because monuments are of dubious economic value – the tourism revenue alone makes Khufu’s construction plans look visionary.

The problem is that slaves subsidise their masters – their welfare and labour power are traded for their masters’ output.

Not everything that their masters produce, therefore, is new output. Much of it represents a transfer of income, and not an increase in overall income.

Had the slaves not been working to build an Ozymandian comment on hubris and mortality, they might have been fishing or farming or crafting pots – the mainstays of the pre-Modern Egyptian economy.

This is one of the earliest examples of the economic concept of crowding out."

The author says that this is an example of transfer of wealth "from" the slaves to the Pharoahs, but surely that's wrong. What is the Pharoah getting in return for his "output". And, if it wasn't something which was supported by the masses, how could a society endure for so long without people rising up against a needless expenditure on a tomb for one person?

My point is that they played a role in Egyptian society of employing a vast number people in a project which would have been enormously expensive, and to construct what...why? It only makes sense if the population bought into it and these things had a value to Egyptian society.
What are you trying to say here? I'm not entirely sure.

I think you might be looking into this a bit "too much". From what I understand, the Pharohs were representatives of the gods themselves, so when that person says "Build me a gigantic tomb", if you got paid or not, I presume people would just do as they are told through fear of going to Ancient Egyptian Hell or whatever?


I'll say it again, why are pyramids any different to any other gigantic man made structure made around that time? IE why do we think aliens made this, but not anything else that's fucking gigantic, even by todays standards.

For example:

Quote:Egyptologists believe that the pyramid was built as a tomb over a 10 to 20-year period concluding around 2560 BC
- The Pyramid of Giza
Height: 146.7 metres (481 ft)
Base: 230.34 metres (756 ft)

Quote:The Colosseum was built in six to eight years.
- The Roman Colosseum
48 meters (157 ft ) High
615 ft Long
510 ft Wide
Base area: 24,000 square metres (6 acres)
could accommodate 87,000 people
Plus had a sub network of corridors/rooms/animal cages ete

In comparison, I'm not saying which one is any better than the other, but how come building something as massive an complex as the Colosseum is any different at all, to doing essentially the same with a giant triangle?

People have also been very clever, so it's fairly clear that despite the overall reason for why anything was built, it WAS built all the same. The pyramids are not nuclear reactors/alien related/not built by man etc, that are what they are....giant ass tombs built by the Egyptians, because their Pharaohs wanted to go out in style.

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06-10-2017, 03:56 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(05-10-2017 09:50 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The idea that people were paid to build these edifices, over hundred if not thousand of years means that there was permanent class of people who depended on them for their livelihood. How is that not a form of redistribution of wealth? What were they producing which was of use to anyone? Unless you subscribe to the theory that these were nuclear reactors, https://www.metabunk.org/pyramid-power-p...ed.t4959/, they have no economic value.

Yo, dumbass, the people paid their taxes in labor during the off season for farming. This is not granite rocket science, it's just beyond your feeble comic book level mind.
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06-10-2017, 04:18 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(05-10-2017 09:50 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The idea that people were paid to build these edifices, over hundred if not thousand of years means that there was permanent class of people who depended on them for their livelihood. How is that not a form of redistribution of wealth? What were they producing which was of use to anyone? Unless you subscribe to the theory that these were nuclear reactors, https://www.metabunk.org/pyramid-power-p...ed.t4959/, they have no economic value.

No reason to think the pyramids took that long to build. Plus the ancient (and not so ancient) world was not immune to the idea of projects taking a lifetime or more to complete. Rome was not built in a day.

Also, people don't need a pure economic incentive to partake in cultural navel gazing. See Also: Mount Rushmore, the Statue of Liberty, Vietnam Veterans Memorial wall, etc.


(05-10-2017 09:50 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I suppose most people just go with the flow, that the pharoahs just ordered people to build them as tombs and "hey presto" they were built. Or maybe aliens...lol

More like absolute rulers delegated these tasks to those who could accomplish them.

Also, not aliens.


(05-10-2017 09:50 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  In the process they developed a technology which allowed them to make flat surfaces, lift very heavy objects and maybe they had figured out that the world rotated on its axis and as a result they were able to align the Great Pyramid with true north.

Such 'advanced technology' were thin and blunt bronze saws combined with desert sand, they used the sand as an abrasive to cut through the stone, the blunt bronze saw just applied pressure against the sand and stone in a straight line.


(05-10-2017 09:50 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The author says that this is an example of transfer of wealth "from" the slaves to the Pharoahs, but surely that's wrong. What is the Pharoah getting in return for his "output". And, if it wasn't something which was supported by the masses, how could a society endure for so long without people rising up against a needless expenditure on a tomb for one person?

Religion and the military. The pharaoh was practically a living god, the head of the state, and the head of the military.


(05-10-2017 09:50 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  My point is that they played a role in Egyptian society of employing a vast number people in a project which would have been enormously expensive, and to construct what...why? It only makes sense if the population bought into it and these things had a value to Egyptian society.

As opposed to what? Laborers working for decades to build the Sistine Chapel (which alone took Michelangelo 4 years to paint), or any one of dozens of other medieval feats of architecture?

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15-10-2017, 10:50 AM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2017 11:19 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(06-10-2017 04:18 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(05-10-2017 09:50 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The idea that people were paid to build these edifices, over hundred if not thousand of years means that there was permanent class of people who depended on them for their livelihood. How is that not a form of redistribution of wealth? What were they producing which was of use to anyone? Unless you subscribe to the theory that these were nuclear reactors, https://www.metabunk.org/pyramid-power-p...ed.t4959/, they have no economic value.

No reason to think the pyramids took that long to build. Plus the ancient (and not so ancient) world was not immune to the idea of projects taking a lifetime or more to complete. Rome was not built in a day.

Also, people don't need a pure economic incentive to partake in cultural navel gazing. See Also: Mount Rushmore, the Statue of Liberty, Vietnam Veterans Memorial wall, etc.


(05-10-2017 09:50 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I suppose most people just go with the flow, that the pharoahs just ordered people to build them as tombs and "hey presto" they were built. Or maybe aliens...lol

More like absolute rulers delegated these tasks to those who could accomplish them.

Also, not aliens.


(05-10-2017 09:50 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  In the process they developed a technology which allowed them to make flat surfaces, lift very heavy objects and maybe they had figured out that the world rotated on its axis and as a result they were able to align the Great Pyramid with true north.

Such 'advanced technology' were thin and blunt bronze saws combined with desert sand, they used the sand as an abrasive to cut through the stone, the blunt bronze saw just applied pressure against the sand and stone in a straight line.


(05-10-2017 09:50 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The author says that this is an example of transfer of wealth "from" the slaves to the Pharoahs, but surely that's wrong. What is the Pharoah getting in return for his "output". And, if it wasn't something which was supported by the masses, how could a society endure for so long without people rising up against a needless expenditure on a tomb for one person?

Religion and the military. The pharaoh was practically a living god, the head of the state, and the head of the military.


(05-10-2017 09:50 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  My point is that they played a role in Egyptian society of employing a vast number people in a project which would have been enormously expensive, and to construct what...why? It only makes sense if the population bought into it and these things had a value to Egyptian society.

As opposed to what? Laborers working for decades to build the Sistine Chapel (which alone took Michelangelo 4 years to paint), or any one of dozens of other medieval feats of architecture?

It all takes money. Even slaves and soldiers have to be fed, as do their families. The rulers, building these things, would have been vastly wealthy, compared to the workers. I read in Suetonius that one of the Claudian emperors was approached with a plan to use a machine to move large stones and he decided not to use it because it meant taking jobs away from the laborers.

I don't think that looking at these edifices as entirely built by a leader, whether or not he had divine status, as tombs is a full explanation of why they were built and why anyone would waste money on something which had no other value than a tomb, particularly considering the enormous cost of them. I can't even conceive of how much they would cost today.

Part of the art of ruling is to keep your base happy... The Roman Catholic church would have employed artisans, architects, laborers etc to build its churches and synagogues so it was something which people bought into, but I would think it would occur to the ruling classes that these things had to resonate somehow with the people. I don't know.

One of the reasons I bring this up is that this is still happening now in Turkey. Erdogan controls Islam. He curries favour with very prominent businessmen by handing out contracts to build massive mosques. There's one going up near us which is being built by a Forbes 500 billionare, a man called Suat Gunsel https://www.forbes.com/profile/suat-gunsel/

The problem is that people are not buying into it. Virtually no one goes to the mosque here and most aren't even able to pay their electric bills. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/erdog...-x8cqs6263

It only works when people don't resent the money going to the "builder" and they are ok with the ideology underlying the thing, if it's built to glorify the leader and his cronies.
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15-10-2017, 10:53 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
You pissed away a lot of posting time there, junior.
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15-10-2017, 11:33 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
(06-10-2017 03:25 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(05-10-2017 09:50 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The idea that people were paid to build these edifices, over hundred if not thousand of years means that there was permanent class of people who depended on them for their livelihood. How is that not a form of redistribution of wealth? What were they producing which was of use to anyone? Unless you subscribe to the theory that these were nuclear reactors, https://www.metabunk.org/pyramid-power-p...ed.t4959/, they have no economic value.

I suppose most people just go with the flow, that the pharoahs just ordered people to build them as tombs and "hey presto" they were built. Or maybe aliens...lol

In the process they developed a technology which allowed them to make flat surfaces, lift very heavy objects and maybe they had figured out that the world rotated on its axis and as a result they were able to align the Great Pyramid with true north.

Here is one comment I found from something calle "The National":

Giza’s pyramids were built by appropriating Egyptian labour: they represented a transfer of wealth, time and income from the kingdom’s slaves to the government of Pharaoh Khufu.

But their exact overall contribution to the economy of the Old Kingdom of Egypt is unclear.

This is not because monuments are of dubious economic value – the tourism revenue alone makes Khufu’s construction plans look visionary.

The problem is that slaves subsidise their masters – their welfare and labour power are traded for their masters’ output.

Not everything that their masters produce, therefore, is new output. Much of it represents a transfer of income, and not an increase in overall income.

Had the slaves not been working to build an Ozymandian comment on hubris and mortality, they might have been fishing or farming or crafting pots – the mainstays of the pre-Modern Egyptian economy.

This is one of the earliest examples of the economic concept of crowding out."

The author says that this is an example of transfer of wealth "from" the slaves to the Pharoahs, but surely that's wrong. What is the Pharoah getting in return for his "output". And, if it wasn't something which was supported by the masses, how could a society endure for so long without people rising up against a needless expenditure on a tomb for one person?

My point is that they played a role in Egyptian society of employing a vast number people in a project which would have been enormously expensive, and to construct what...why? It only makes sense if the population bought into it and these things had a value to Egyptian society.
What are you trying to say here? I'm not entirely sure.

I think you might be looking into this a bit "too much". From what I understand, the Pharohs were representatives of the gods themselves, so when that person says "Build me a gigantic tomb", if you got paid or not, I presume people would just do as they are told through fear of going to Ancient Egyptian Hell or whatever?


I'll say it again, why are pyramids any different to any other gigantic man made structure made around that time? IE why do we think aliens made this, but not anything else that's fucking gigantic, even by todays standards.

For example:

Quote:Egyptologists believe that the pyramid was built as a tomb over a 10 to 20-year period concluding around 2560 BC
- The Pyramid of Giza
Height: 146.7 metres (481 ft)
Base: 230.34 metres (756 ft)

Quote:The Colosseum was built in six to eight years.
- The Roman Colosseum
48 meters (157 ft ) High
615 ft Long
510 ft Wide
Base area: 24,000 square metres (6 acres)
could accommodate 87,000 people
Plus had a sub network of corridors/rooms/animal cages ete

In comparison, I'm not saying which one is any better than the other, but how come building something as massive an complex as the Colosseum is any different at all, to doing essentially the same with a giant triangle?

People have also been very clever, so it's fairly clear that despite the overall reason for why anything was built, it WAS built all the same. The pyramids are not nuclear reactors/alien related/not built by man etc, that are what they are....giant ass tombs built by the Egyptians, because their Pharaohs wanted to go out in style.

What I'm getting at is that the pyramids seem to things which have many functions rather than being just a tomb, which is what I have always thought was the accepted idea.

They embody the latest in technology. They seem to have been built in accordance with a highly sophisticated understanding of mathematics. There are also theories about them being built to embody the religious ideas of the time in that they seem to be aligned with stars, ie., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_correlation_theory. I would think that they were built in such a way that the people building them received payment in accordance with their particular skills as well as their position in society, much as the construction industry works today. They towered over the population, sending a message about the society to people who would be awed by them, thus enhancing the reputation of the ruler.

The trouble is that we get one type of analysis which says they are just big tombs. Then someone says that because they show signs of advanced technology, they must have been built by aliens, then we have some people saying they are just built as religious objects.

Perhaps they were something which rulers found, over many, many years could be utilised as a force for social cohesion in a number of different ways.
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15-10-2017, 11:38 AM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
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23-10-2017, 02:25 PM
RE: Megalyths and ancient advanced technology
It's really simple. The Egyptians were Sumerians who thought they descended from the Annunaki, who lived in mountains, so they built the pyramids because there were no mountains nearby. The pharoah thought he was Horus, son of Osiris, and he had to impregnate Isis by strapping on a golden phallus and pointing it up through a shaft in the pyramid towards a star representing Isis.

This story of royal incest is what we see in the origin of human life in the OT, in that Cain and Abel must have committed incest with either their mother or sisters in order for human life to carry on. The story also comes up in the Jesus story because the "god" who impregnates Mary is actually a man, who was considered a god. The birth of Jesus is known about by the Three Kings and takes place under a "star" because this references Egyptian mythology. It suggests that Jesus is a prince in some royal line in a society which follows the Egyptian mythology.

The pyramids are a focus of this phallic, star-worshipping society. They are built using the best technology of the day and serve as a visual reminder of the omnipotence of the pharoah and his divine status. They probably had religious and political motifs painted on them. Their construction gave work to the masses and thereby garnered support for the ruling class who paid for them to be built.

When the Romans came up against the remains of this ancient, warlike civilisation and went to war against them, they invented Christianity to impose a secular moral philosophy on them, coopting a "prince" who had converted to Hellenism. They wrote up the New Testament and spread it among the followers of the Roman international cult of Serapis which was an earlier attempt to quell these people.

The ruling classes of the proto-Europeans of the Near East largely converted to this religion under Roman rule, but with the collapse of the Near East in the seventh century, the lower classes reverted to the old religion under the guise of Islam and turned against the Christians and Jews who were all leaving the area because it had become very hot as the ice caps melted because people were burning too much wood.

This is what I have learned by coming here. Great, isn't it. lol
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