Men should not have to fear ridicule
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21-10-2016, 01:32 PM
Men should not have to fear ridicule
I am not sure where to put this topic. Been sitting here for 10 minutes wondering where to post this because it kinda hits different things.
It goes into philosophy, politics, mental health, ... so yea let's go here because why not.

I have an issue and I hear of this once in a blue moon.
Men who have suffered abuse by women cannot come out and deal with it and seek help.
They often get ridiculed, no one believes them, a lot of victim blaming is happening, and sometimes they, as victims, are the ones who get punished.

In my opinion this is outrageous.
Let's say a woman rapes a man and he wants to do something about it. Where is he supposed to turn? The police? So that he goes in front of a judge just to be told that he should simply not let her do it? You kidding me?
Let's say a man is the victim of domestic violence? Where should he turn to get help again? He cannot hit back or defend himself because he will be automatically considered the guilty as long as she cries a bit and plays her role well.
Or what else? Turn to friends who will laugh at him because he is now considered weak?

I even have a buddy who had the issue with domestic violence.
My own husband suffered from an abusive ex-wife.

And why all of this?
Because women are "weaker" and men considered "strong"?
Because women are kind and never brutal or cruel? Women can be just as fucked up and abusive as men can be.
Sure statistically they aren't but if a man finds the strength to come forward, the least he should receive is ridicule and victim blaming.

A man's cry for help might sound and look different but when it is there it should be heard and acted upon instead of finding excuses why this "didn't happen" because guess the what >> It probably did happen.

Here is a video that finally got me to post this (I have seen some of those and heard from friends first hand as well).
I don't know this guy but he and his story do seem legit to me.




Cheers,
R.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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21-10-2016, 01:52 PM
RE: Men should not have to fear ridicule
I think it's just as bad for any gender or age. One is either ridiculed or vilified or considered to be lying.

That's why most abuse goes unpunished.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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21-10-2016, 02:13 PM (This post was last modified: 21-10-2016 02:25 PM by epronovost.)
RE: Men should not have to fear ridicule
Nobody should fear ridicule, fear or outright denial no matter their gender, age, sexual orientation, socio-economical status or others when it comes to denouncing criminal abuse (sexual or otherwise). Despite this being common sense and desirable, its ultimately a platitude if there isn't a strong social mouvement to deconstruct the cultural norms and rules that created the problem in the first place. We need more and better feminists, social workers, teachers, police officers, judges and psychologues to solve this problematic. We also urgently need to teach comprehensive sexual education classes in schools in which you would cover relationship issues in addition to the more "classical" stuff.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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21-10-2016, 03:11 PM
RE: Men should not have to fear ridicule
I honestly don't think the odds are in favor of believing most victims, sadly. Women, children or men. Our society still has a huge issue with victim-blaming. Although I don't think most people blame children, but they also tend to not believe them. Just google any priest pedophelia cases. And have you ever checked out any MRA websites? WHOLE lotta victim blaming happening there.

Abuse is abuse, no matter who is dispensing it. We (society, people in authority, etc.) should take all cases of abuse seriously.
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21-10-2016, 03:15 PM
RE: Men should not have to fear ridicule
They changed the law in Michigan that defines spousal abuse to be of either sex.

One of my ex's sister had the dubious distinction of being the first one in Michigan charged for abuse, when she slapped around her husband -- on the first day the law was in effect.....


Lucky her....

Big Grin

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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21-10-2016, 04:52 PM
RE: Men should not have to fear ridicule
It honours you all very much that you see the problem as one of society and that you see the whole big problem with abuse. But currently, and for the past few hundred or thousands years, we live in a society where the man is the strong and aggressive one and the woman is the weak and caring one. That is, at its essence the problem. No one would admit to that, but it is the case. As long as we, as a society cannot change this idea (and we are getting there slowly right now), men will stay the guilty one by default and especially men will stay not being taken serious when women abuse them because women are, per default, not seen as the aggressor ever. It had to be the man, in the eyes of society/police/judge...

The one thing that bothers me in the reactions here in this thread is the fact that the focus is being shifted away from "there is a problem that men have" to "yes but women and children have this problem too". This here is to discuss the issues that men face when it comes to being abused by women.
So although some things are the same for all victims, there is stuff very specific to the stated situation.
I would like to focus on that, and leave the general victim discussions for a general victim thread (so to say).

Some of the very specific problems for this scenario:
* A man cannot simply push her away or physically defend himself when she rapes him even though he is physically stronger. It happens way too fast that a woman will just go ahead and then turn the thing upside down if he decides to press charges after defending himself. Because in that case she can claim that he initiated and that he was using force, and as proof she has that bruise or that scratch or whatever.
* There is no way to find physical proof for rape on a man unless it was anal rape or she used methods to hurt his private parts in the process of raping. If both is not the case, he cannot even proof anything.
* Since, per default, society/police sides with women in these cases, it becomes horribly difficult to change those made up minds when something really happened the other way around.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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21-10-2016, 05:38 PM
RE: Men should not have to fear ridicule
I'm glad he found a good woman who treats him well after having to endure all those bad ones.
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21-10-2016, 06:13 PM (This post was last modified: 22-10-2016 08:06 AM by epronovost.)
RE: Men should not have to fear ridicule
@Leela

I completly agree with on the fact that normative traditonnal gender roles are a plague on modern societies around the world and that men do suffer from them more often that many would think. I am relatively enthousiast on the subject since the last 20 years have seen those traditionnal gender roles being challenged in more and more area by more and more people. In those 20 years, awarness of the domestic abuse against men is on the rise too with police units being trained in the specific of it in the UK, Ireland and Canada since 2008 (a single State of the US, but i can't remember which one).

As for the three claims you want to discuss. I can say the following.

1) This is largely an overblown, yet still valid, concern. Rapes of women against men, like over 80% of all rape, don't require physical force, thus don't elicit a violent defensive strategie, and when it does, the victim might not want to defend himself for fear of further injuries, injuries to his children (very common concern if its linked to spousal abuse) or fear to hurt a love one who happens to be an agressor. Most men being sexualy abused were also younger than most women who have suffered from the same trauma. Fear of seeing the situation being turned around is actualy rather rare. Most people don't think about this issue in the heat of the moment. This issue only concern a ridiculously small number of men vs women rape who are themselves rather rare when it comes to rapes.

2) There is a way to detect the rape of a men by a women on a men's body (in addition to all the other ones that are commonly seen in court). Bruising, scars and sratches are common in cases of forceful rape and especially at the base of the penis where the skin is very thin and where a women would have clenched to force an erection (should the men not have one at this point). Psychological symptomes are also common if extremely varied. Men have a tendency to exibit denfensive injuries and signs of struggle more often than women in rape cases due to their higher propency to attempt to fight off their attacker and/or due to the fact that their attacker perceive them as suceptible to use such tactics to fight them off, thus "striking prehemptively". Women who attack men are sometime more brazzen, because they might believe that a men won't hit her back, not due to fear of seeing the situation being twisted against them, but due to misplaced respect to the rule of chivalry that prohibits attacking women and children in combat situation. Thus, in many cases its actualy easier to have physical proofs of assault on a men than on a women.

3) This is actualy the biggest problem in my opinion and beside "killing" once and for all the idea that women are inherently weak and men are inherently strong, its unlikely it will ever disapeer.

A forth problem I would have mentionned is the small amount of research made on the subject of sexual violence against men (especially heterosexual ones) and the small sample of actual cases with which we can make some research right now that leads to poor fiability.

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22-10-2016, 07:12 AM
RE: Men should not have to fear ridicule
I suffered spousal abuse from my ex-wife.....


She called it "home cooking" ---

I called it "spousal abuse"......
....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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