[Merged] I'm gonna have to agree with the church on this one / Atheist Minister
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08-09-2016, 08:28 PM
I'm gonna have to agree with the church on this one
The United Church of Canada wants to defrock an atheist minister.

I think the church is right in this case Blink , she openly came out as an atheist about 3 yrs ago and is refusing to do many of her sacramental duties as a minister and she is openly defiant to the UCC leadership and she is fighting the church to keep her job. I think she's a hypocrite and a poor example for the atheist community.

This isn't the same as the Clergy Project where church leaders that have lost their faith are being helped to leave the church in a way that is discrete because they are afraid of the financial and social backlash they will face.

I think most of us would agree that the clergy project is doing for atheist clergy what we usually council people on this forum to those that want to come out to their families. Not to do so if they think they will be emotionally or physically harmed and would be unable to leave because they cannot yet be financially independent.

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"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard
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08-09-2016, 08:41 PM (This post was last modified: 08-09-2016 08:45 PM by cactus.)
RE: I'm gonna have to agree with the church on this one
What does her congregation stand to gain by remaining with this organization? Is it an issue of financial dependence on a central governing body?

Either way, I think she, along with a portion of her congregation (probably with the help of a Kickstarter or GoFundMe campaign), will start up a new, probably independent (or possibly explicitly UU or humanist) church in the near future. I think that's been her inevitable trajectory from the start of her, uhh... spiritual deconstructionist journey or whatever she wants to call it.

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08-09-2016, 08:52 PM
RE: I'm gonna have to agree with the church on this one
Agree with the UU idea. Also they're just getting around to it after 3 years? Poor Teresa MacBain, if memory serves, went home after coming out as a nonbeliever, and they'd already changed the locks on her Methodist church.

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08-09-2016, 08:55 PM
RE: I'm gonna have to agree with the church on this one
In her own words (one year ago)...





This is an interesting one because it highlights the dilemma of principle over pragmatism.

All organisation have a vertical (hierarchical) element and a horizontal (functional) element. That this church is trying to hold on to the vertical (up to the pinnacle sky daddy) shows their failure to understand the current memetic discourse and the zeitgeist.

Churches that emphasise their functional benefits (social cohesion, social services) are much more likely to adapt and survive to the next century.

Smile

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08-09-2016, 08:57 PM
RE: I'm gonna have to agree with the church on this one
If you look at it from an employment stance, she is not performing the duties she was hired to do. Not only that, she is actively speaking out against her employer.

I don't see how she can justify keeping that job under those circumstances.

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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08-09-2016, 10:40 PM
RE: I'm gonna have to agree with the church on this one
What a dumb bitch.

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09-09-2016, 04:30 AM
RE: I'm gonna have to agree with the church on this one
(08-09-2016 08:55 PM)DLJ Wrote:  In her own words (one year ago)...





This is an interesting one because it highlights the dilemma of principle over pragmatism.

All organisation have a vertical (hierarchical) element and a horizontal (functional) element. That this church is trying to hold on to the vertical (up to the pinnacle sky daddy) shows their failure to understand the current memetic discourse and the zeitgeist.

Churches that emphasise their functional benefits (social cohesion, social services) are much more likely to adapt and survive to the next century.

Smile

Ok I only listened to about 20 minutes of the podcast so far cause I have to get ready for work, I might listen to the rest when I get home but I was not impressed with what I heard. She's one of those people that says god means what ever you want it to mean which to me is a just silly. Well as open as her church seems to be there are somethings that are fundamental to their organisation which she doesn't believe.

I imagine if she joined this forum and introduced herself as an atheist that believes in a god she wouldn't get much respect and would likely be considered a Troll.

That's what she's doing Trolling the UCC.

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"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard
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09-09-2016, 04:56 AM
RE: I'm gonna have to agree with the church on this one
(08-09-2016 10:40 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  What a dumb bitch.

This.
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09-09-2016, 06:18 AM
RE: I'm gonna have to agree with the church on this one
(09-09-2016 04:56 AM)Lucipurr Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 10:40 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  What a dumb bitch.

This.

^^ that

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The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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09-09-2016, 04:19 PM
RE: I'm gonna have to agree with the church on this one
(08-09-2016 08:52 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Also they're just getting around to it after 3 years?

The UCC is very tolerant. A short step up from the UU. They were ordaining gay ministers back when Bush Sr. was President. I suspect that she might still be there if she'd been willing to keep doing her duties.

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