Message From A Former Muslim
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20-07-2012, 03:27 PM
RE: Message From A Former Muslim
(20-07-2012 03:20 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I don't understand why this video deteriorates from a good video about skepticism of Islam to a bad video about psychology.

Quote:If you hate [someone], hate them until it hurts, until the pain of hate becomes so great that you realize how wasteful it is to hate anyone or anything, and that only unconditional love will nourish your spirits and give you clearer reasons to embrace the beauty and fragility of life
This has been proven time and again not to work. Venting is the very worst thing you can do to try to relieve anger (or hate), because it just breeds more of it.

Quote:If you love someone, TELL them, and tell them now....don't wait for the right moment because this is the only moment you have, and you will not get it back
This is a great suggestion, assuming that the object of your love loves you back... otherwise it can carry negative consequences. Expressing a romantic love towards a friend can distance them, and even expressing a "brotherly" love between guys can make them think less of you (assuming, again, that it is not mutual).

Quote:But for those of you who are brave enough to open their minds and see life beyond the blinders ...
This makes a fundamental attribution error in assuming that those who have not followed your footsteps have not done so because they are "scared". There are plenty of other reasons why people believe dumb things, not the least of which is self-justification, bias, and ego.

In short, despite the fact that your video attempts to make a case against Islam -- one that I fully support -- it doesn't do it very rationally. You're making an appeal based on the types of wisdom that we expect from cliched Chinese wise men.
Shit bro, calm down. This video wasn't meant to be accurate in terms with a field he probably wouldn't know.

The love part was easy, tell them, because you might not have the time to tell them later. Life is random, so make sure you say what you want to say before your uncertain demise.

As for the last part. He described it in his own terms, the Islamic religion, to me, preys on the fear and the cowards. It tells them that there is safety in their religion, and none outside.

I would think it was a good assumption to be made, and it was a lesson that should be taken with Gusto

"Don't be afraid to have an open mind." I hardly think he was actually thinking that EVERY muslim was like him.

He was targeting some of the More open muslims, and trying to get them to think about the outside world.

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20-07-2012, 03:36 PM
RE: Message From A Former Muslim
(20-07-2012 03:27 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(20-07-2012 03:20 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I don't understand why this video deteriorates from a good video about skepticism of Islam to a bad video about psychology.

This has been proven time and again not to work. Venting is the very worst thing you can do to try to relieve anger (or hate), because it just breeds more of it.

This is a great suggestion, assuming that the object of your love loves you back... otherwise it can carry negative consequences. Expressing a romantic love towards a friend can distance them, and even expressing a "brotherly" love between guys can make them think less of you (assuming, again, that it is not mutual).

This makes a fundamental attribution error in assuming that those who have not followed your footsteps have not done so because they are "scared". There are plenty of other reasons why people believe dumb things, not the least of which is self-justification, bias, and ego.

In short, despite the fact that your video attempts to make a case against Islam -- one that I fully support -- it doesn't do it very rationally. You're making an appeal based on the types of wisdom that we expect from cliched Chinese wise men.
Shit bro, calm down. This video wasn't meant to be accurate in terms with a field he probably wouldn't know.

The love part was easy, tell them, because you might not have the time to tell them later. Life is random, so make sure you say what you want to say before your uncertain demise.

As for the last part. He described it in his own terms, the Islamic religion, to me, preys on the fear and the cowards. It tells them that there is safety in their religion, and none outside.

I would think it was a good assumption to be made, and it was a lesson that should be taken with Gusto

"Don't be afraid to have an open mind." I hardly think he was actually thinking that EVERY muslim was like him.

He was targeting some of the More open muslims, and trying to get them to think about the outside world.
I'm not "uncalm" just because I'm in disagreement. Wherever I find a fault with someone's logic or reason, I like to point it out, especially if that person is an atheist. We should all be better than that, and there's no way to learn from our mistakes until we see them.

How much time does it take for you to "tell someone you love them"? After doing it, does it feel "done"? I'm just cautioning against suggesting to everyone that they force this statement of love on everyone. While it's true that there isn't an infinite amount of time, we shouldn't exaggerate that lack of time, either.

To assume that Islam "preys on the fear and cowards" is stereotyping. A lot of people are Islamic because they were raised in an Islamic atmosphere, an Islamic home, and in countries where it is the state religion -- and that appears to be the case even here. People aren't always scared into believing (although I'm sure it happens in plenty of cases), so one should not assume that this is always the case.

I like the suggestion of having an open mind, and there's a reason I said it was a "good video about skepticism". It just didn't stay with that thread, and the theme became apocalyptic rather than rational.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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20-07-2012, 03:39 PM
RE: Message From A Former Muslim
(20-07-2012 03:36 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(20-07-2012 03:27 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Shit bro, calm down. This video wasn't meant to be accurate in terms with a field he probably wouldn't know.

The love part was easy, tell them, because you might not have the time to tell them later. Life is random, so make sure you say what you want to say before your uncertain demise.

As for the last part. He described it in his own terms, the Islamic religion, to me, preys on the fear and the cowards. It tells them that there is safety in their religion, and none outside.

I would think it was a good assumption to be made, and it was a lesson that should be taken with Gusto

"Don't be afraid to have an open mind." I hardly think he was actually thinking that EVERY muslim was like him.

He was targeting some of the More open muslims, and trying to get them to think about the outside world.
I'm not "uncalm" just because I'm in disagreement. Wherever I find a fault with someone's logic or reason, I like to point it out, especially if that person is an atheist. We should all be better than that, and there's no way to learn from our mistakes until we see them.

How much time does it take for you to "tell someone you love them"? After doing it, does it feel "done"? I'm just cautioning against suggesting to everyone that they force this statement of love on everyone. While it's true that there isn't an infinite amount of time, we shouldn't exaggerate that lack of time, either.

To assume that Islam "preys on the fear and cowards" is stereotyping. A lot of people are Islamic because they were raised in an Islamic atmosphere, an Islamic home, and in countries where it is the state religion -- and that appears to be the case even here. People aren't always scared into believing (although I'm sure it happens in plenty of cases), so one should not assume that this is always the case.

I like the suggestion of having an open mind, and there's a reason I said it was a "good video about skepticism". It just didn't stay with that thread, and the theme became apocalyptic rather than rational.
Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like it happens to all cases.

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20-07-2012, 05:38 PM
RE: Message From A Former Muslim
Just had another look at the video x2. What a superb job.

Are you going to do another? I would like to see you expose the guts of Islam by discussing the history of the koran. Also the immoral teachings therein. Also how the religious hierarchies are using people for their own benefit.

Re your voice...The best, most effective bits I think are when you speed it up to a more "normal" delivery.
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21-07-2012, 12:34 AM
RE: Message From A Former Muslim
No offense to you, apostasin, but how would I know that you were actually a former Muslim and not a Christian, atheist, or something else without showing yourself on Youtube? I mean, there are probably many other youtube videos where a person pretends as if he was a Christian or a Muslim before just to attack that particular religion which he or she falsely claimed to believe in. For example, a Christian might make a video titled "A Message from a Former Atheist" in which he makes up a story about how much of a strong atheist he was at one point, only to go on to talk about how he finally realized that Christianity is the true religion (or something like that) as if that makes his faith any more believable. Would any of you atheists in this forum feel touched by that "former" atheist? I don't think so.

Also, it seemed to me that your video was just creating an appeal to emotion, especially with all those pictures and stuff, and with your personal experiences. I'm not sure if you're doing this just to spread your video and make it more popular or if you're actually interested in showing this to other Muslims. If the latter is your intention, then, in my opinion, I don't think that the Muslims who watch the video will find anything special nor anything motivational about it. I didn't find anything special either. You were only talking about your own feelings and experiences.

I could be wrong about this, but even your accent doesn't sound like you were a Muslim. That's another thing that made me suspicious. But, again, I could be wrong.
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21-07-2012, 12:44 AM
RE: Message From A Former Muslim
(21-07-2012 12:34 AM)Internet Mullah Wrote:  I could be wrong about this, but even your accent doesn't sound like you were a Muslim. That's another thing that made me suspicious. But, again, I could be wrong.
What reason would anyone have to muck around pretending to be an ex-Muslim?

Do you accept the premise that *some* people can be ex-Muslims? What makes you so surprised to meet one here then?
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21-07-2012, 12:58 AM
RE: Message From A Former Muslim
Yeah, I do know that there are many ex-Muslims who speak against Islam, but it's just that sometimes I feel suspicious especially when I see things like this on Youtube. You don't really know the who the person is making the video and they might be lying or something. They might be a Christian, atheist, or anything else. Sometimes a non-Muslim might go around pretending to be a former Muslim to give others the impression as if he knows everything about Islam since he was a former Muslim, i.e. just to make his arguments more credible, or to appear as if he knows Islam better than the rest of you guys. It's an old strategy used by clever people.
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21-07-2012, 01:07 AM
RE: Message From A Former Muslim
Another old strategy used by clever people is casting doubt on a person's character who's conclusions they don't like... Wink
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21-07-2012, 01:15 AM (This post was last modified: 21-07-2012 06:06 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Message From A Former Muslim
What utter crap. So one can tell what a Muslim "looks like", by looking at someone on You Tube ? (But thank you for supporting "profiling"). Bullshit. Anyway, it makes not a whit of difference whether one is an "ex" anything, (Muslim or Christian), or not. One does not have have to "be" something to know or understand that it is all a pile of dung.

One earns one's credibilty, not by what one "used to be", but by demonstrated knowledge of the facts.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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21-07-2012, 02:47 AM
RE: Message From A Former Muslim
(20-07-2012 03:20 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I don't understand why this video deteriorates from a good video about skepticism of Islam to a bad video about psychology.

Quote:If you hate [someone], hate them until it hurts, until the pain of hate becomes so great that you realize how wasteful it is to hate anyone or anything, and that only unconditional love will nourish your spirits and give you clearer reasons to embrace the beauty and fragility of life
This has been proven time and again not to work. Venting is the very worst thing you can do to try to relieve anger (or hate), because it just breeds more of it.

Quote:If you love someone, TELL them, and tell them now....don't wait for the right moment because this is the only moment you have, and you will not get it back
This is a great suggestion, assuming that the object of your love loves you back... otherwise it can carry negative consequences. Expressing a romantic love towards a friend can distance them, and even expressing a "brotherly" love between guys can make them think less of you (assuming, again, that it is not mutual).

Quote:But for those of you who are brave enough to open their minds and see life beyond the blinders ...
This makes a fundamental attribution error in assuming that those who have not followed your footsteps have not done so because they are "scared". There are plenty of other reasons why people believe dumb things, not the least of which is self-justification, bias, and ego.

In short, despite the fact that your video attempts to make a case against Islam -- one that I fully support -- it doesn't do it very rationally. You're making an appeal based on the types of wisdom that we expect from cliched Chinese wise men.
Starcrash,

Thank you so much for your beautifully articulated critique. It was very informative, and rest assured, notes were taken.

I will readily admit that I'm embarrassingly ignorant when it comes to matters of the more complex aspects of the human psyche. I'm still growing as a debater, as a presenter and a proposer of ideas...which is what I'm attempting to tangentially achieve with this first outing. You are spot on in your assessment of vagueness, and a prevailing aura of ambiguity. The video is more proposition than persuasion, more invitation than invocation.

There are times, however, when all that goes right out the window...as a Muslim will tend to carelessly expend all his/her ammunition of reason and rationale in favor of baseless personal attacks.

That's when I go to work. As you will see very shortly.
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