Message from an ex buddhist
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15-03-2016, 08:27 PM
Message from an ex buddhist
I made this post somewhere else and want to share it here too.

I am trying to give up my faith in Buddhism. I have been firmly buddhist about 8 years. Someone was saying that Buddhists ARE atheist. So that atheism does not negate buddhism. I think this is a common belief amongst some Atheists so I thought I'd make a post about this.

I told him that while Buddhists don't place their faith in God, that faith is still required, particularly in Buddha as teacher, dharma as teaching, Sangha as community, and guru as embodiment of all three for Tibetan Buddhists which I was one. Some Buddhists consider the belief of karma to be the equivalent to the belief of god, albeit not an entity. There are gods, demigods, ghosts, demons, deities (which are not gods, but beings who are perfectly enlightened Buddha's who are omniscent). There is reincarnation, which is not limited to as a human, but in any realm of existence including the many heavens and hells, of which you become destined by karmic law. There are prescribed morals, which have been handed down from the Buddha to avoid bad karma.

There are saints, who have attained power of the external world through gaining power over their mind. Including, but not limited to things such as levitation, telepathy, multiplying your body into many bodies, making it appear larger, smaller, or disappear, walking through walls, moving through the earth, reaching out and touching the sun or moon, power over time.
And to have doubts about this teaching is seen as Delusion and ignorance to be dispelled with faith. And you wonder why I want to change... I'm sure I am missing alot but it is not just a philosophy for meditation.

I also told him to look up about the charvakas from india, who were much more like Atheists and disagreed with many Buddhist beliefs, and existed at the time of the Buddha even.

I think Atheists should give up that Buddhism is compatible with atheism. While I'm not saying that people shouldn't meditate, but I don't think it needs to depend on a philosophy either. I also think Atheists should be considerate of buddhists who want to give up their faith, and realize the two are not the same. Welcome them with open arms as Atheists, and dont convince them that the only way to be atheist is to "not believe in God". People may need to consider themselves atheist for different reasons than that, and so please, try to be welcoming.

Thanks

Long story short for the comments: I was told not all Atheists are skeptics. My response is that: I just feel like atheism without skepticism, legitimizes the argument that "atheism requires just as much faith". If you didn't believe in God, but don't question faith, what's the point?

URL for original post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comment...xbuddhist/
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16-03-2016, 01:21 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
One can be atheist if one was't indoctrinated or by having some dose of skepticism, i.e. questioning widely believing claim of something called god existence.

I would say that being atheist mean that person in question is at least little skeptical, though lack of belief in deities does not make person rational in everything. Atheist easily can think that homeopathy is working or what he read in horoscope is true.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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16-03-2016, 02:40 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
(15-03-2016 08:27 PM)Maxwelldunn89 Wrote:  I also think Atheists should be considerate of buddhists who want to give up their faith, and realize the two are not the same.

From my experience, Atheists are generally considerate people and far more considerate than christards.

(15-03-2016 08:27 PM)Maxwelldunn89 Wrote:  Welcome them with open arms as Atheists, and dont convince them that the only way to be atheist is to "not believe in God". People may need to consider themselves atheist for different reasons than that, and so please, try to be welcoming.

Thanks

I'm very puzzled by this.

Atheism is a rejection of the god hypothesis until such time as the burden of proof of god has been met. Unless I'm missing something here, it's not possible to be an Atheist and still believe in god, is it?

Also, why else would people wish to consider themselves Atheist other than as a results of the rejection of the god hypothesis?

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16-03-2016, 08:36 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
(16-03-2016 02:40 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  I'm very puzzled by this.

Atheism is a rejection of the god hypothesis until such time as the burden of proof of god has been met. Unless I'm missing something here, it's not possible to be an Atheist and still believe in god, is it?

One general doctrine agreed upon by Buddhists is that they do not believe that this world is created and ruled by a god. However, disbelief in a creator god does not mean that Buddhism is necessarily atheistic. Theravada Buddhism—prominent in Southeast Asia—is atheistic, whilst Mahayana Buddhism—prominent in China and Japan—incorporates several deities and celestial beings.

I guess the jury has to still be out on this question of Buddhist "atheism"?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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16-03-2016, 10:34 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
(16-03-2016 02:40 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 08:27 PM)Maxwelldunn89 Wrote:  I also think Atheists should be considerate of buddhists who want to give up their faith, and realize the two are not the same.

From my experience, Atheists are generally considerate people and far more considerate than christards.

(15-03-2016 08:27 PM)Maxwelldunn89 Wrote:  Welcome them with open arms as Atheists, and dont convince them that the only way to be atheist is to "not believe in God". People may need to consider themselves atheist for different reasons than that, and so please, try to be welcoming.

Thanks

I'm very puzzled by this.

Atheism is a rejection of the god hypothesis until such time as the burden of proof of god has been met. Unless I'm missing something here, it's not possible to be an Atheist and still believe in god, is it?

Also, why else would people wish to consider themselves Atheist other than as a results of the rejection of the god hypothesis?

I wouldn't even offer it the dignity of being considered a hypothesis. It's a myth. It's make believed reinforced with tall tales and emotional manipulation. It's as much a hypothesis as the idea that Bugs Bunny battled a gremlin inside a B=17 or something.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

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17-03-2016, 03:49 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
(16-03-2016 02:40 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  From my experience, Atheists are generally considerate people and far more considerate than christards.

I'm very puzzled by this.

Atheism is a rejection of the god hypothesis until such time as the burden of proof of god has been met. Unless I'm missing something here, it's not possible to be an Atheist and still believe in god, is it?

Also, why else would people wish to consider themselves Atheist other than as a results of the rejection of the god hypothesis?

I am not saying Atheists are not considerate. I'm asking for them to be just as considerate to Buddhist non-believers. I don't think it is possible to be Atheist and believe in God, and that isn't what I'm implying. Also, has the burden of proof of karma been met? As far as why someone who is Buddhist would want to become atheist, it is to be able to be a part of the largest community of non-believers in the modern world.
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17-03-2016, 04:12 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
(17-03-2016 03:49 AM)Maxwelldunn89 Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 02:40 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  From my experience, Atheists are generally considerate people and far more considerate than christards.

I'm very puzzled by this.

Atheism is a rejection of the god hypothesis until such time as the burden of proof of god has been met. Unless I'm missing something here, it's not possible to be an Atheist and still believe in god, is it?

Also, why else would people wish to consider themselves Atheist other than as a results of the rejection of the god hypothesis?

I am not saying Atheists are not considerate. I'm asking for them to be just as considerate to Buddhist non-believers. I don't think it is possible to be Atheist and believe in God, and that isn't what I'm implying. Also, has the burden of proof of karma been met? As far as why someone who is Buddhist would want to become atheist, it is to be able to be a part of the largest community of non-believers in the modern world.

I believe that you have missed my points completely. My questions did not relate to Buddhism in any way. They related purely to your statements regarding atheists.

Here's what you said: ... and dont convince them that the only way to be atheist is to "not believe in God". People may need to consider themselves atheist for different reasons than that.

Atheism is the rejection of the god hypothesis until it meets its burden of proof.

Why else would you be an atheist? Indeed, how else can one be an atheist?

Marburg virus, Ebola, Rabies, HIV, Smallpox, Hantavirus, Dengue Fever all brought to you by god - who cares for us and loves us all Censored
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17-03-2016, 04:13 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
You may think, well why not believe in the Buddhist concept of karma?
Here is a quote I pulled up on karma

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Savatthi in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. Then Subha the student, Todeyya's son, went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One: "Master Gotama, what is the reason, what is the cause, why baseness & excellence are seen among human beings, among the human race? For short-lived & long-lived people are to be seen, sickly & healthy, ugly & beautiful, uninfluential & influential, poor & rich, low-born & high-born, stupid & discerning people are to be seen. So what is the reason, what is the cause, why baseness & excellence are seen among human beings, among the human race?"

"Student, beings are owners of kamma, heir to kamma, born of kamma, related through kamma, and have kamma as their arbitrator. Kamma is what creates distinctions among beings in terms of coarseness & refinement."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/....than.html
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17-03-2016, 04:21 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
(17-03-2016 04:12 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  
(17-03-2016 03:49 AM)Maxwelldunn89 Wrote:  I am not saying Atheists are not considerate. I'm asking for them to be just as considerate to Buddhist non-believers. I don't think it is possible to be Atheist and believe in God, and that isn't what I'm implying. Also, has the burden of proof of karma been met? As far as why someone who is Buddhist would want to become atheist, it is to be able to be a part of the largest community of non-believers in the modern world.

I believe that you have missed my points completely. My questions did not relate to Buddhism in any way. They related purely to your statements regarding atheists.

Here's what you said: ... and dont convince them that the only way to be atheist is to "not believe in God". People may need to consider themselves atheist for different reasons than that.

Atheism is the rejection of the god hypothesis until it meets its burden of proof.

Why else would you be an atheist? Indeed, how else can one be an atheist?

I feel like I already answered these questions
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17-03-2016, 04:23 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
I know several zen buddhists or people who used to be but are kinda just out of touch with it. They would respond to a statement of well whats the point if you don't believe in a god/creator/being of that sort but still have these faith believes.

Because they think it works. They think it does speak to something truthful of their essence or that it at least works on a functional level, i.e. telling yourself a type of in the moment mantra of how everything is connected atomicly.

They may also surely be wrong but they may also respond, well whats the point of being right or wrong? To some it is that way.

I'm not sure I get what you think the term "atheism" is then.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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