Message from an ex buddhist
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17-03-2016, 04:29 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
(17-03-2016 04:23 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I know several zen buddhists or people who used to be but are kinda just out of touch with it. They would respond to a statement of well whats the point if you don't believe in a god/creator/being of that sort but still have these faith believes.

Because they think it works. They think it does speak to something truthful of their essence or that it at least works on a functional level, i.e. telling yourself a type of in the moment mantra of how everything is connected atomicly.

They may also surely be wrong but they may also respond, well whats the point of being right or wrong? To some it is that way.

I'm not sure I get what you think the term "atheism" is then.

I don't think there's no point in being Buddhist. What I mean, is that the point of being Atheist, has a point that is different but valid point in its own way. Is to be a non-believer. Or am I wrong?
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17-03-2016, 04:42 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
I want to add that God is just replaced with karma. It knows all, including what you did in your room last night. And you may be punished harshly for it. Luckily, faith in it, will lead you to see the dangers of such behavior. Wink
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17-03-2016, 04:52 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
It is also mysterious, and ultimately unknowable by us mere humans.
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17-03-2016, 04:56 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
(17-03-2016 04:52 AM)Maxwelldunn89 Wrote:  It is also mysterious, and ultimately unknowable by us mere humans.

Except by Lord Buddha
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17-03-2016, 05:10 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
(17-03-2016 04:29 AM)Maxwelldunn89 Wrote:  
(17-03-2016 04:23 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I know several zen buddhists or people who used to be but are kinda just out of touch with it. They would respond to a statement of well whats the point if you don't believe in a god/creator/being of that sort but still have these faith believes.

Because they think it works. They think it does speak to something truthful of their essence or that it at least works on a functional level, i.e. telling yourself a type of in the moment mantra of how everything is connected atomicly.

They may also surely be wrong but they may also respond, well whats the point of being right or wrong? To some it is that way.

I'm not sure I get what you think the term "atheism" is then.

I don't think there's no point in being Buddhist. What I mean, is that the point of being Atheist, has a point that is different but valid point in its own way. Is to be a non-believer. Or am I wrong?

It's just a label that really is up to one to decide what the point or value of being atheist/non-believer. One can want to use a label like that for feeling it best matches their mindset or a political/social point. It can envelope many points.

The extra points going onward, yeah, the ideas can be damaging and totally unfounded just as any god claim and they have godly or supreme being like qualities.

It's just doesn't negate a non-belief though. There are atheist/nonbelievers who are new age spiritualists who believe in karma or a flow that runs through them. they may not be skeptical or scientific in their believes but they reject god/deity claims and it is what an atheist is.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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17-03-2016, 05:15 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
And although the world was not CREATED by God to buddhists, its okay, Lord Buddha has such deep knowledge of karma that he has told us how the world was ACTUALLY born and eventually dies, including its heavens above the earth and its hells under the surface of the earth, which are described in great detail. The reference point for these things is mount meru, which it was recently discovered, that mount meru doesn't exist! It was made up. Maybe it was a metaphorical mountain? Obviously, because that would justify faith in the rest of the untestable hypotheses...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology
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17-03-2016, 05:19 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
(17-03-2016 04:13 AM)Maxwelldunn89 Wrote:  You may think, well why not believe in the Buddhist concept of karma?

Because it blames the victims for circumstances often beyond their control.
Because no evidence has been offered for it's existence.
Because it requires faith.

In regards to the topic of atheism and Buddhism: atheism starts at a question and ends with an answer. Do you believe in god? No. That's it. That is the entirety of atheism.

You will find that there are atheists who believe in a variety of things, including Buddhism, karma, etc. But those have to be addressed in regards to their own merits, not atheism.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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17-03-2016, 05:34 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
There never has been or will be anything as a perfectly unifying religion. ALL religions start as an Umbrella label under which you have countless sub sects that have a multitude of different interpretations of how the umbrella label should be followed. Buddhism is no different. And it too does not have magic powers to make humans only do good. There is not one nation on the face of the planet that does not have hospitals or prisons. If a human does good or bad, that action is in them, not a religion. Humans should treat individuals as individuals first. But claims as ideas do not deserve to be scrutiny or blasphemy free. Human rights are a given, but that is completely separate than the ability to demonstrate the credibility of what one may claim. Religion is a human right yes, but others also have the right to keep that religion off a pedestal so that it does not get a monopoly and set up a social pecking order.

https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/4021...f-buddhism

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/...245049.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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17-03-2016, 05:41 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
(17-03-2016 05:34 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  There never has been or will be anything as a perfectly unifying religion. ALL religions start as an Umbrella label under which you have countless sub sects that have a multitude of different interpretations of how the umbrella label should be followed. Buddhism is no different. And it too does not have magic powers to make humans only do good. There is not one nation on the face of the planet that does not have hospitals or prisons. If a human does good or bad, that action is in them, not a religion. Humans should treat individuals as individuals first. But claims as ideas do not deserve to be scrutiny or blasphemy free. Human rights are a given, but that is completely separate than the ability to demonstrate the credibility of what one may claim. Religion is a human right yes, but others also have the right to keep that religion off a pedestal so that it does not get a monopoly and set up a social pecking order.

https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/4021...f-buddhism

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/...245049.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

Thank you for some resources... I just can't see how Atheists who have given up on their faith don't see their exact parallels in Buddhism.
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17-03-2016, 05:59 AM
RE: Message from an ex buddhist
(17-03-2016 05:41 AM)Maxwelldunn89 Wrote:  
(17-03-2016 05:34 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  There never has been or will be anything as a perfectly unifying religion. ALL religions start as an Umbrella label under which you have countless sub sects that have a multitude of different interpretations of how the umbrella label should be followed. Buddhism is no different. And it too does not have magic powers to make humans only do good. There is not one nation on the face of the planet that does not have hospitals or prisons. If a human does good or bad, that action is in them, not a religion. Humans should treat individuals as individuals first. But claims as ideas do not deserve to be scrutiny or blasphemy free. Human rights are a given, but that is completely separate than the ability to demonstrate the credibility of what one may claim. Religion is a human right yes, but others also have the right to keep that religion off a pedestal so that it does not get a monopoly and set up a social pecking order.

https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/4021...f-buddhism

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/...245049.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

Thank you for some resources... I just can't see how Atheists who have given up on their faith don't see their exact parallels in Buddhism.

What? That makes no sense. "atheist" is not a faith or a religion. Calling "atheist" a faith is like calling "off" a tv channel.

First off you can also be an atheist and a Jew or an atheist and a Catholic. Those are people who don't believe in a god, but like the ritual and tradition.

Secondly, "atheist" merely means off on god claims. It is not a religion, it is not a philosophy, it is not a political party, it is not an economic view.

The only thing atheists have in common is "off". Outside that we are very diverse in every aspect of life.

I am a liberal but not PC. I know other atheists who think Ayn Rand "fuck the poor" GOP/Libertarian economics works. I know other atheists who stupidly have Che the asshole who lead to Cuba, as their avatar, and hate both of those economic views.

I also know other atheists who worship guns on par with right wing Christian tea party nuts. I am not for banning all guns but the worship of them is disturbing to me.

I know other atheists who stupidly think Gene Roddenberry invented the modern cell phone and flat screen TVs, which is bullshit, because if you watch enough prior si fi and competing si fi of that time and since, you'd see similar depictions.

I also have run into other atheists who think the universe is a living thing, which it is not. I know other atheists who buy the 9/11 and JFK garbage....

So when you say atheists are similar to Buddhists, that is simply flat out false. We are individuals as well and Buddhism is a religion and "atheist" is not.

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