Message in the sand
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20-02-2015, 12:43 PM
RE: Message in the sand
(19-02-2015 08:26 PM)f stop Wrote:  
Quote:If you're walking along the sandy seashore devoid of all people and you come across this message carved into the sand that reads: "John loves Mary", would you doubt at all that that that message was not the product of "natural" processes?

Ergo, God!Facepalm

I'm certain that someone, somewhere has debunked this. Does anyone know of a link?

I would know that it was man made. Man is the only being that we know of so far which uses written language. I would not jump to the irrational conclusion that it was put there by an imaginary being in the sky. Man is a part of nature so it would not be unnatural to see such a thing at all. I would ask the author to point to a single example of supernatural writing in the sand.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

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The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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20-02-2015, 01:14 PM
RE: Message in the sand
The argument is not that it's God made. You're *supposed* to say "Of course I know it was man-made". Then they will say "You see, it's a designed thing and it has to have a creator, just like *us*"...

Just woolly thinking at it's finest Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-02-2015, 01:43 PM
RE: Message in the sand
(19-02-2015 08:26 PM)f stop Wrote:  
Quote:If you're walking along the sandy seashore devoid of all people and you come across this message carved into the sand that reads: "John loves Mary", would you doubt at all that that that message was not the product of "natural" processes?

Ergo, God!Facepalm

I'm certain that someone, somewhere has debunked this. Does anyone know of a link?

If YOU are walking on a beach - are you so frigging arrogant as to think you're the FIRST and only person who's ever been there????

That's the problem with people who think they're on a first name basis with the guy who created the universe -- overinflated egos.

Try looking for footprints, genius... You're not alone in the universe.

...
Debunk accomplished.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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20-02-2015, 03:03 PM
RE: Message in the sand
(20-02-2015 01:43 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 08:26 PM)f stop Wrote:  Ergo, God!Facepalm

I'm certain that someone, somewhere has debunked this. Does anyone know of a link?

If YOU are walking on a beach - are you so frigging arrogant as to think you're the FIRST and only person who's ever been there????

That's the problem with people who think they're on a first name basis with the guy who created the universe -- overinflated egos.

Try looking for footprints, genius... You're not alone in the universe.

...
Debunk accomplished.

That's pretty much my thought. just because there was no one there when you are there doesn't mean someone else wasn't there before you got there.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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22-02-2015, 01:04 PM
RE: Message in the sand
(19-02-2015 08:26 PM)f stop Wrote:  
Quote:If you're walking along the sandy seashore devoid of all people and you come across this message carved into the sand that reads: "John loves Mary", would you doubt at all that that that message was not the product of "natural" processes?

Ergo, God!Facepalm

I'm certain that someone, somewhere has debunked this. Does anyone know of a link?

how to debunk it

step1. go to the beach
step2, see stuff drawn in the sand
step3, see footprints in the sand
step4, ask yourself, why in hell would I think god exists when I can see someone else's footprints in the sand right next to the stuff drawn there ?

all this argument proves is the existence of human beings, I wondering if thats what their trying to achieve here Facepalm

language is just random sounds and patterns people arbitrarily decided to agree on using to represent stuff and thats it

we can say for certain that humans made those words drawn in the sand because we have yet to see anything else do it without the insolvent of human beings
so what conclusions can we make here ? that this is the work of man or natural causes or a sky fairy ? which among these 3 options has actually been observed
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22-02-2015, 01:14 PM
RE: Message in the sand
The message is keep an eye on that rock. It's shifty.

[Image: rock-1.jpg]

#sigh
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25-02-2015, 07:45 AM
RE: Message in the sand
(19-02-2015 08:26 PM)f stop Wrote:  I'm certain that someone, somewhere has debunked this. Does anyone know of a link?

The correct response is to not even address it. It's such a dishonest approach that you likely will not have a fruitful conversation. I banged my head against a wall on this one at least twice on that Facebook group before I simply left.

Still, if you insist, this is likely the product of bad induction. Seeing that writing would indicate "an intelligent cause" from our experiences and it contains "information". This would then be compared to things like the "information" contained in DNA or the complexity of different facets of the universe. They then jump to say "since the writing shows signs of information or man-made complexity, and these other things superficially have the same properties, they must then have the same cause.". Basically, it's potentially faulty induction being used to fill in gaps in our knowledge (or a god of the gaps).

Compare the above to these two:
  • Writing contains information.
  • This information was created by intelligent humans.
  • DNA contains information.
Therefore, the information in DNA was created intelligently.
  • Ray Charles plays piano.
  • Ray Charles is blind.
  • My wife plays piano.
Can you, from that, determine if my wife is or is not blind?

I mean, the first one looks reasonable enough on the surface, if you're willing to make certain assumptions. If you don't make those assumptions, it looks as stupid as the second bulleted list. The trick they will pull is to say that the first list is "common sense" and "obviously linked", where as the second list is not linked, which is why the induction fails. Of course, they cannot prove the link in the first list that they assert.

They will, without a doubt, resort to showing you more "information" caused by humans, to make it look like all "information" must be caused intelligently. Of course, that's not how induction works. I can show you one, ten, a hundred, or a thousand white swans. That means fuck-all when addressing the question if black swans exist.

TL;DR: Don't play their game. Don't grant them a single unfounded assertion.
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03-03-2015, 10:47 AM
RE: Message in the sand
If I found that Italy was shaped like a boot and the Iberian peninsula resembles a face, or that Florida resembles a flaccid penis, am I to conclude these geographic oddities are intelligently designed? Not st all! It's no different from the cloud that looks like a butterfly or an elephant. It's surprising, but it's not evidence of design. If you can explain how it happened naturally, you've ruled out design.

Religion is proof that invisible men can obscure your vision.
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