Messiah, son of David
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01-03-2016, 03:03 PM
RE: Messiah, son of David
(01-03-2016 10:24 AM)mgoering Wrote:  
(01-03-2016 09:31 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I guess that depends. Has the person in question fulfilled every one of the tasks to be considered the Jewish messiah?

Has worldwide peace been established? Have all weapons been dismantled and turned into farming equipment? Is there a third Temple? Are at least the majority of Jews living in Israel? Does everyone on earth recognize that there is a G-d?

If so, the genetic link to the Davidic line would be assumed. If we're wrong, then G-d can sort it out. It's not like we'll worship the guy or something. He's just someone we show respect to in much the same way as you might show your respect to the Queen of England.

What does that mean for you? Absolutely nothing. You'd continue to live your life as you currently do, only in a nicer environment.

I won't pretend to understand what the Messianic Era means to the Jewish people. But, the website Chabad.org has a basic explanation of the two stages of the Messianic Era. The second and final stage is described as follows:

The Resurrection of the Dead – an era that will last for all eternity – is the second and final stage of the Messianic Era. It will happen forty years after the advent of the Messianic Era ...

Every Jewish soul that ever lived will be resurrected—in the very body in which it lived and died (and in the case of reincarnated souls, all the bodies will be resurrected). The body and soul are partners in all good deeds performed; they must both be rewarded accordingly ...

The Resurrection Era will be a period that will be characterized by radical changes in nature, with miracles becoming the daily norm ... We will then be treated to a reward that can only be viewed as a gift from Above, for its greatness is such that finite human efforts could never earn such bounty. ...


The ellipses above are omissions of links to other pages of the Chabad.org website.

http://www.chabad.org/library/moshiach/a...Basics.htm

The description has a few elements of the 2nd coming of Christ. But, note, only JEWISH souls are resurrected. So I was right. God does play favorites! Laugh out load

You're kind of jumping into the deep end without a flotation device here.

"The Messianic Era will be one of tremendous prosperity—"delicacies will be commonplace like dust." That will leave humankind with ample free time—and all the nations of the world will be preoccupied with one pursuit: the study of G‑d and the Torah."

The term "nations" means gentiles. If the nations are included in this statement, then it's understood that they'll be resurrected as well.

When reading Jewish texts, it's pertinent to not only read what is there, but also consider what isn't there. It says here, every Jewish soul will be resurrected. It doesn't say only Jewish souls, and it also doesn't state that every Jewish soul will get to stick around. False prophets and the really wicked will only get to come back to witness how badly they screwed up.

"Every Jewish soul that ever lived will be resurrected—in the very body in which it lived and died (and in the case of reincarnated souls, all the bodies will be resurrected). The body and soul are partners in all good deeds performed; they must both be rewarded accordingly. For more on this topic, see Who will be Resurrected?"

Clicking on the link in the paragraph above takes you to the article below:

The Resurrection of Righteous Gentiles

"The Midrash states clearly that the Resurrection applies to Israel, while the commentary entitled Yfei Toar explains that it includes righteous gentiles as well. The Zohar implies that the idolatrous nations of the world will not be resurrected."
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01-03-2016, 05:13 PM
RE: Messiah, son of David
(01-03-2016 10:24 AM)mgoering Wrote:  
(01-03-2016 09:31 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I guess that depends. Has the person in question fulfilled every one of the tasks to be considered the Jewish messiah?

Has worldwide peace been established? Have all weapons been dismantled and turned into farming equipment? Is there a third Temple? Are at least the majority of Jews living in Israel? Does everyone on earth recognize that there is a G-d?

If so, the genetic link to the Davidic line would be assumed. If we're wrong, then G-d can sort it out. It's not like we'll worship the guy or something. He's just someone we show respect to in much the same way as you might show your respect to the Queen of England.

What does that mean for you? Absolutely nothing. You'd continue to live your life as you currently do, only in a nicer environment.

I won't pretend to understand what the Messianic Era means to the Jewish people. But, the website Chabad.org has a basic explanation of the two stages of the Messianic Era. The second and final stage is described as follows:

The Resurrection of the Dead – an era that will last for all eternity – is the second and final stage of the Messianic Era. It will happen forty years after the advent of the Messianic Era ...

Every Jewish soul that ever lived will be resurrected—in the very body in which it lived and died (and in the case of reincarnated souls, all the bodies will be resurrected). The body and soul are partners in all good deeds performed; they must both be rewarded accordingly ...

The Resurrection Era will be a period that will be characterized by radical changes in nature, with miracles becoming the daily norm ... We will then be treated to a reward that can only be viewed as a gift from Above, for its greatness is such that finite human efforts could never earn such bounty. ...


The ellipses above are omissions of links to other pages of the Chabad.org website.

http://www.chabad.org/library/moshiach/a...Basics.htm

The description has a few elements of the 2nd coming of Christ. But, note, only JEWISH souls are resurrected. So I was right. God does play favorites! Laugh out load

Not too put too fine a point on things, mgoering, but you should really expand your search on this to include multiple Jewish interpretations. The spectrum of ideas the Jewish community is vast and you should explore samplings from different communities.

You asked these guys what their view of the messianic era is:

[Image: 9754481-standard.jpg]

You really should have asked these guys instead:

[Image: haredi-men_1826929c.jpg]
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01-03-2016, 06:44 PM
RE: Messiah, son of David
Why don't you ask your Chabad pals when rabbi Schneerson is coming back from the dead.

He's late, by my watch.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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01-03-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: Messiah, son of David
(01-03-2016 06:44 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Why don't you ask your Chabad pals when rabbi Schneerson is coming back from the dead.

He's late, by my watch.

I assume you weren't referring to the Chabad as my pals. I align myself with the guys on the lower picture from the previous post, thank you very much. Maybe you meant mgoering's pals?

Are you Jewish? (Does Chabad harass you? Do they try to get you to wear tefillin? You can just tell them no, you know.)
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01-03-2016, 07:10 PM
RE: Messiah, son of David
(01-03-2016 07:00 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I assume you weren't referring to the Chabad as my pals. I align myself with the guys on the lower picture from the previous post, thank you very much. Maybe you meant mgoering's pals?

It's the braided sideburns isn't it? Chicks find them hot.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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01-03-2016, 07:12 PM
RE: Messiah, son of David
(01-03-2016 07:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-03-2016 07:00 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I assume you weren't referring to the Chabad as my pals. I align myself with the guys on the lower picture from the previous post, thank you very much. Maybe you meant mgoering's pals?

It's the braided sideburns isn't it? Chicks find them hot.

And the hats.
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01-03-2016, 09:42 PM
RE: Messiah, son of David
Er... how do you get reincarnated if you were cremated, and what if you don't like your body? If you die at 90, are you gonna be in a 90 year old's body for eternity?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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01-03-2016, 10:01 PM
RE: Messiah, son of David
(01-03-2016 09:42 PM)morondog Wrote:  Er... how do you get reincarnated if you were cremated, and what if you don't like your body? If you die at 90, are you gonna be in a 90 year old's body for eternity?

I think by reincarnated you mean resurrection. The specifics of the resurrection are not detailed "officially" in any document that I can just casually share quotes from. I'm working entirely by memory, and I want to point out that I'm providing you with my understanding of the most common Jewish view, and not necessarily the view that I hold.

If you're cremated, you're not coming back. The consistent message that I hear is that there will need to be some sort of physical "thing" to latch onto. I've heard it said that a particular bone in the neck is that specific thing. I have no idea why.

All bodies will be repaired to mint, factory condition after resurrected.
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01-03-2016, 11:04 PM
RE: Messiah, son of David
(01-03-2016 03:03 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(01-03-2016 10:24 AM)mgoering Wrote:  I won't pretend to understand what the Messianic Era means to the Jewish people. But, the website Chabad.org has a basic explanation of the two stages of the Messianic Era. The second and final stage is described as follows:

The Resurrection of the Dead – an era that will last for all eternity – is the second and final stage of the Messianic Era. It will happen forty years after the advent of the Messianic Era ...

Every Jewish soul that ever lived will be resurrected—in the very body in which it lived and died (and in the case of reincarnated souls, all the bodies will be resurrected). The body and soul are partners in all good deeds performed; they must both be rewarded accordingly ...

The Resurrection Era will be a period that will be characterized by radical changes in nature, with miracles becoming the daily norm ... We will then be treated to a reward that can only be viewed as a gift from Above, for its greatness is such that finite human efforts could never earn such bounty. ...


The ellipses above are omissions of links to other pages of the Chabad.org website.

http://www.chabad.org/library/moshiach/a...Basics.htm

The description has a few elements of the 2nd coming of Christ. But, note, only JEWISH souls are resurrected. So I was right. God does play favorites! Laugh out load

You're kind of jumping into the deep end without a flotation device here.

"The Messianic Era will be one of tremendous prosperity—"delicacies will be commonplace like dust." That will leave humankind with ample free time—and all the nations of the world will be preoccupied with one pursuit: the study of G‑d and the Torah."

The term "nations" means gentiles. If the nations are included in this statement, then it's understood that they'll be resurrected as well.

When reading Jewish texts, it's pertinent to not only read what is there, but also consider what isn't there. It says here, every Jewish soul will be resurrected. It doesn't say only Jewish souls, and it also doesn't state that every Jewish soul will get to stick around. False prophets and the really wicked will only get to come back to witness how badly they screwed up.

"Every Jewish soul that ever lived will be resurrected—in the very body in which it lived and died (and in the case of reincarnated souls, all the bodies will be resurrected). The body and soul are partners in all good deeds performed; they must both be rewarded accordingly. For more on this topic, see Who will be Resurrected?"

Clicking on the link in the paragraph above takes you to the article below:

The Resurrection of Righteous Gentiles

"The Midrash states clearly that the Resurrection applies to Israel, while the commentary entitled Yfei Toar explains that it includes righteous gentiles as well. The Zohar implies that the idolatrous nations of the world will not be resurrected."

There is no "body in which it lived". Every human who ever lived is MOSTLY comprised of bacteria.
http://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-rele...akeup-body
On top of that, it is constantly changing at an unbelievably fast rate, (quantum mechanics, and all that).

There is no (defined) "body" to resurrect.

Immortality for the ancient Hebrews was family continuity. NOT individual immortality. Only after "individualism" arose (after the Exile) did monotheism, and individualism arise in that culture, (together).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-03-2016, 11:20 PM
RE: Messiah, son of David
(01-03-2016 11:04 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(01-03-2016 03:03 PM)Aliza Wrote:  You're kind of jumping into the deep end without a flotation device here.

"The Messianic Era will be one of tremendous prosperity—"delicacies will be commonplace like dust." That will leave humankind with ample free time—and all the nations of the world will be preoccupied with one pursuit: the study of G‑d and the Torah."

The term "nations" means gentiles. If the nations are included in this statement, then it's understood that they'll be resurrected as well.

When reading Jewish texts, it's pertinent to not only read what is there, but also consider what isn't there. It says here, every Jewish soul will be resurrected. It doesn't say only Jewish souls, and it also doesn't state that every Jewish soul will get to stick around. False prophets and the really wicked will only get to come back to witness how badly they screwed up.

"Every Jewish soul that ever lived will be resurrected—in the very body in which it lived and died (and in the case of reincarnated souls, all the bodies will be resurrected). The body and soul are partners in all good deeds performed; they must both be rewarded accordingly. For more on this topic, see Who will be Resurrected?"

Clicking on the link in the paragraph above takes you to the article below:

The Resurrection of Righteous Gentiles

"The Midrash states clearly that the Resurrection applies to Israel, while the commentary entitled Yfei Toar explains that it includes righteous gentiles as well. The Zohar implies that the idolatrous nations of the world will not be resurrected."

There is no "body in which it lived". Every human who ever lived is MOSTLY comprised of bacteria.
http://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-rele...akeup-body
On top of that, it is constantly changing at an unbelievably fast rate, (quantum mechanics, and all that).

There is no (defined) "body" to resurrect.

Immortality for the ancient Hebrews was family continuity. NOT individual immortality. Only after "individualism" arose (after the Exile) did monotheism, and individualism arise in that culture, (together).

Thanks Bucky! Now I know we're made up of flesh and not magical G-d stuff. This explains why I got that one wrong on my last science test.
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