Might have bitten off more than I can chew here...
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02-05-2011, 07:03 AM
RE: Might have bitten off more than I can chew here...
The goal is to find potentially thought provoking conversation on a subject near and dear to our hearts. This thread enables us to support one another and discuss what is going on in the other forum because any encouragement we give to one another on that forum gets censored. This is a place for us to vent out frustrations and discuss ways of reiterating statements previously censored without fear of censorship or tampering.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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02-05-2011, 07:30 AM
 
RE: Might have bitten off more than I can chew here...
(02-05-2011 07:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The goal is to find potentially thought provoking conversation on a subject near and dear to our hearts. This thread enables us to support one another and discuss what is going on in the other forum because any encouragement we give to one another on that forum gets censored. This is a place for us to vent out frustrations and discuss ways of reiterating statements previously censored without fear of censorship or tampering.

So explain what makes what you do different from what trolls do?

Troll: someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

1) Trolls always join in force because very few can do it alone.
2) They join in force to get support from their friends agreeing with them when they post.
3) They are most always online at the forum they troll at the same time.
4) They tag team members of the forum.
5) They start controversial threads.
6) Their response is most always controversial, opposite of the main forum view.
7) Their view is always above the forums they join because they always look down upon the people they debate unless they agree with them.
8) When caught red handed at what they were doing, they will always claim innocence. Making comments justifying what they were doing making it look normal.
9) They always report back to their troll forums.
10) Some will start bait threads and wait for their first victim as all involved will jump upon anyone who posts in that thread.
11) Trolls believe that no one else is allowed to have a different view from theirs.
12) Their goal is to eliminate their opponent views from the face of the planet by conversion (which is nothing short of evangelism), or making the opposing view illegal.
13) The object is to join the opposing view forum, try to either make friends to improve your chances of conversion, or choose a world view that will hopefully allow you to express you views along with support from a few Christians that might like to hedge the fence.
14) Choosing a world view of agnostic, or TE, might allow the troll to express more views towards his goal. Even though he is atheist, he will try and act the role.
etc...
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02-05-2011, 07:34 AM
RE: Might have bitten off more than I can chew here...
(02-05-2011 07:30 AM)ikester7579 Wrote:  
(02-05-2011 07:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The goal is to find potentially thought provoking conversation on a subject near and dear to our hearts. This thread enables us to support one another and discuss what is going on in the other forum because any encouragement we give to one another on that forum gets censored. This is a place for us to vent out frustrations and discuss ways of reiterating statements previously censored without fear of censorship or tampering.

So explain what makes what you do different from what trolls do?

Because my goal is not piss anyone off in the other forum. I posted my reasoning in the other forum and it still holds here. Evolution is a passionate subject for me and I hope to provide some insight on that forum from a scientific perspective while remaining civil. I do not think anything I have posted could be considered trolling and I plan to keep it that way. "You catch more flys with honey than vinegar" as the saying goes. Therefore, if I want people to listen to my opinions then I need to be respectful and civil rather than accusatory and defensive.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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02-05-2011, 07:35 AM
RE: Might have bitten off more than I can chew here...
Troll:

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion." - Wikipedia

"Trolling is trying to get a rise out of someone. Forcing them to respond to you, either through wise-crackery, posting incorrect information, asking blatantly stupid questions, or other foolishness. However, trolling statements are never true or are ever meant to be construed as such. Nearly all trolled statements are meant to be funny to some people, so it does have some social/entertainment value." - Urban Dictionary

Going to a evolution-Creationism debate forum heavily populated by Creationists and trying to argue for evolution in a polite and civil manner is not trolling. No equivocation rule here Big Grin

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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02-05-2011, 07:42 AM
RE: Might have bitten off more than I can chew here...
(02-05-2011 07:30 AM)ikester7579 Wrote:  
(02-05-2011 07:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The goal is to find potentially thought provoking conversation on a subject near and dear to our hearts. This thread enables us to support one another and discuss what is going on in the other forum because any encouragement we give to one another on that forum gets censored. This is a place for us to vent out frustrations and discuss ways of reiterating statements previously censored without fear of censorship or tampering.

So explain what makes what you do different from what trolls do?

Trolls are attention seeking people who try to irritate people as much as they can. While a troll would release it's frustration on your forum, we made this thread so it could be done here instead (as stated before).
We had no creationists (or other people who are opposed to our ideas) in our forum to discuss the subjects we handled here. So some of us merely came to your forum to discuss it there instead. People with different visions is what makes discussing interesting, that's what some of us sought in your forum.
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02-05-2011, 07:44 AM
 
RE: Might have bitten off more than I can chew here...
(28-04-2011 08:52 AM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  I wanted a challenge, so I decided to join the website Evolution is a Fairytale. My first exchange with a creationist went surprisingly well. I explained to him how communities could evolve and it ended on a note of him accepting that they could(not did, but could).

But then, this guy showed up.

Ron Wrote:
ashleyhunt60 Wrote:
Ron Wrote:This seems to be a subjective opinion attempting to be objective. So, coming from an atheistic standpoint, what does it really matter if an evolutionist is good or bad as long as the stronger traits are passed on, and the weaker stifled?
Again, what does it matter to the materialist atheist? As long as the strongest weeds out the weakest, what does it matter if a weaker human life devalued?
I don't use the ToE as a base for my morality.
I at no time asserted that you use evolution as a base for your morality. Please re-read the questions.
I said “So, coming from an atheistic standpoint, what does it really matter if an evolutionist is good or bad as long as the stronger traits are passed on, and the weaker stifled?”
And “Again, what does it matter to the materialist atheist? As long as the strongest weeds out the weakest, what does it matter if a weaker human life devalued?”.

I’ll assume, at this point, you misread my post…

[In a later post, after I explained what I use for my morality]
Once again: To the materialist atheist WHY? If the human is nothing more than “matter in motion”, if one bag of biological mass asserts its strength and superior survival skills over that of a weaker bag of biological mass, why does it matter to a materialist atheist if they kill, lie, or cheat? And, obviously (from a materialistic standpoint), if one bag of biological mass “over comes by any means” a weaker bag of biological mass, then they weren’t equal.

I could go into the mechanics of origins for “morality” and “equality” from the “materialistic atheist”, but I think the above questions are sufficient.
(Link to specific post)
And this guy is an Admin. And he has no qualms about opening up your account and messing around with your status and stated beliefs. Ironic that we are debating about morality and he's insisting that I'm the immoral one.

I "opened up your account and messed around with your status and stated beliefs"? Can you give me a heads up where I did this?
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02-05-2011, 07:46 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2011 07:53 AM by ashley.hunt60.)
RE: Might have bitten off more than I can chew here...
I have not, and nor have I seen from my ilk on your forum, said anything inflammatory for the sake of it being so, anything rude, anything, any personal attacks, or anything else that denotes a troll. Ergo, we are not trolls. Just very brave souls.
And now they are all here....

Not mine, but I'll find where you did.
Sorry, my mistake, it was Ikester([url=http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4311&view=findpost&p=71135]link[url]). Sorry for the mistake, turns out you're clean on that one.

I just want to say something to our new Creationist population. I'm not sure if you plan to stay or leave, but if you will continue to post here, I'd like to ask to try not to make life hard for the mods. None of them are any of the alleged trolls, so don't give them extra work or put them in bad situations, okay?

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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02-05-2011, 08:06 AM
 
RE: Might have bitten off more than I can chew here...
(02-05-2011 07:42 AM)Tim_Kiebooms Wrote:  
(02-05-2011 07:30 AM)ikester7579 Wrote:  
(02-05-2011 07:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The goal is to find potentially thought provoking conversation on a subject near and dear to our hearts. This thread enables us to support one another and discuss what is going on in the other forum because any encouragement we give to one another on that forum gets censored. This is a place for us to vent out frustrations and discuss ways of reiterating statements previously censored without fear of censorship or tampering.

So explain what makes what you do different from what trolls do?

Trolls are attention seeking people who try to irritate people as much as they can. While a troll would release it's frustration on your forum, we made this thread so it could be done here instead (as stated before).
We had no creationists (or other people who are opposed to our ideas) in our forum to discuss the subjects we handled here. So some of us merely came to your forum to discuss it there instead. People with different visions is what makes discussing interesting, that's what some of us sought in your forum.


As in any forum, there are rules agreed upon (and/or) prior to admittance to said forum. And, indeed, prior to being admitted here, I had to agree to the rules of this forum. I also had to read the rules of the different sub-forums to insure I was not, or will not, break said rules.

As to Trolls:

Trolls will either not read the rules, or push the envelope of those rules and cross the line of those rules, in order to force their opinion(s), while knowing full well that they are doing such.

Trolls, when caught and warned for infractions of said rules will; continue pushing the envelope/break the rules (and/or) when caught and after having had the rules enforced them, Trolls will use many of the usual tactics (pretending they’ll never do it again, attempt to play one mod/admin against the other, abuse the PM system to argue and/or berate the enforcer, go back the forum they came from and complain about being caught etc…).

Any experienced admin/mod knows and understands that this happens, and how it happens. Whether they will admit that here remains to be seen (I am not judging here, I am simply stating a fact, as I have many years’ experience as an administrator and moderator of several forums).
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02-05-2011, 08:30 AM
RE: Might have bitten off more than I can chew here...
I still think you are missing an essential part of being a troll. You can list all the habits of trolls and list what we do and see how much they match, but that's about as logical as saying that because Hitler brushed his teeth, if you brush you're teeth too, you must be a Nazi.

Trolls don't debate. Trolls don't use reason or logic. When trolls break the rules, they don't just skim it, they full on break them. Example of one of our posts:

TheBeardedDude,May 1 2011, 08:56 AM Wrote:All organisms vary in their morphology slightly (like height of me vs. you or the amount of hair on my back vs. your back [I have a very hairy back which gets really annoying in the summer ]) but these suture patterns do vary to some degree from specimen to specimen but the pattern remains the same (think about teeth in us. We all have the same teeth but some are larger smaller, crooked straight, white yellow). That is what these suture patterns are. They are the same basic pattern for the same species and the only variation may be the number of crenulations which may be a function of body size (interesting thought I may have to try and find some more papers on these suture patterns).

Example of what a troll would say:
Troll Wrote:Creationists base they're process on blindly following the Bible. They fail in all regards of life and should kill themselves.

One is blatantly inflammatory, not addressing the issue, and the other is civil, polite, and does address the issue. The big part of being a troll: It's not arguing you're positions(usually trolls don't have actual opinions), it's about getting under the other person's skin.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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02-05-2011, 08:31 AM
 
RE: Might have bitten off more than I can chew here...
(02-05-2011 07:46 AM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  I just want to say something to our new Creationist population. I'm not sure if you plan to stay or leave, but if you will continue to post here, I'd like to ask to try not to make life hard for the mods. None of them are any of the alleged trolls, so don't give them extra work or put them in bad situations, okay?

As I posted earlier, having been both administrator and moderator at several sites, you'll find that I actually adhere to the posted rules, as I know how they feel having to constantly deal with trolls.
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