Might soon be time to face the fire....
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02-11-2013, 11:31 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
Oh man, hope stuff goes fine. Not much advice to give, haven't raised a child before. Glad that you found a bit of a solution. All the best!

Music is my religion
- Jimi Hendrix
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02-11-2013, 11:42 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(02-11-2013 09:03 PM)Anjele Wrote:  You may be able to buy a little time by going with this route...some people believe that god is....it's not a lie.

He is a little young still to have to go too far and certainly doesn't need to end up in the middle of a family pissing contest. If you say that some people think this or that...then you just have to prepare yourself for when he asks what you think. Hopefully he won't ask till after the holidays.

Words... from mouth... taken.

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and... Girly knows best.

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02-11-2013, 11:51 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(02-11-2013 11:26 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Well, it'd be easier if you weren't so attractive. Blush No homo. Big Grin

I know this. No homo required.
(02-11-2013 11:26 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I promised the Catholic Church not to interfere with my kids' Catholic upbringing, I didn't promise to lie to them.

I ain't promised nobody nuttin, my friend.

My duty is first and foremost to my son. I have no qualms there. My fright and my concern is of my relationship with mi familia. I have reason to keep my opinions to myself.

(02-11-2013 11:26 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Look at you, all worried about being outed for being rational and reasonable and shit. ... fucking pussy. Tongue

Yup.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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02-11-2013, 11:57 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(02-11-2013 08:52 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  So tonight it happened.

Time for bed, time to read a book beforehand. He chose one that my parents got for him that I hadn't read or even noticed before. It's a book based on the alphabet and heavy on the jesus. I read the title and quizzically looked at my wife, she just said, "oh it's one your parents gave him, it's about morals".

Morals, okay that's cool, so we lay down in the bed and I start in. A.

A is for "ask God". I keep reading like everything is normal, he's three and it's never come up insofar.

"Who's god?" he interrupts.

I'm silent. I have no idea what to say to my three year old that would even come close to his level of understanding of the concept, even though he is a pretty sharp little shit. My wife just squeezes my foot and walks out of the room.

"God is......."

"Where's god? Who is he?"

"God is everywhere........" (I don't know what else to say)

He then comments on a ladybug in the picture and I say something and quickly turn to a benign page, read a bit of it, start asking other weird questions about pictures and it's forgotten and done with.

But I was floored. I'm not ready. He's heard the term "god" now a few times, and he knows that it's a term that means something. And when he hears it, he wants to know about it.

Here's the thing for those who don't know me well, my dad is a preacher and my mom is more religious than he is and I'm completely in the closet as an atheist. This shit is coming to a head, what with thanksgiving and christmas coming and all of the references of god that will be made and I don't have an explanation for my son and I sure as shit don't really want to explain to my family why I can't tell my son that god is real and yadda yadda.

I'm a little freaked out right now.

Thanksgiving and christmas might go off without a hitch. He might not say a word, but that's not like him. He wants to know about everything all of the time and he's not shy about asking. I think it would be very telling if I had to explain to him about god in front of my family.

Tonight it became very real that I don't know what the fuck I'm doing or how to handle this.
Firstly I just want to say that you should be very proud, that is one bright little boy you have.

Now I am not an expert, and this stuff scares me too. I am wondering though. When you read to him about jack and the giant bean stalk, or little red riding hood, or whoever you read about I am assuming that you don't stop to explain to him that the characters are not real and you probably don't worry about what affect it will have on him when he learns that they are not real. So why not let god just be another one of his bedtime fairy tales until he is older?

Well that is my idea. Good luck to you Smile
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03-11-2013, 12:43 AM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(02-11-2013 11:57 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Firstly I just want to say that you should be very proud, that is one bright little boy you have.

Now I am not an expert, and this stuff scares me too. I am wondering though. When you read to him about jack and the giant bean stalk, or little red riding hood, or whoever you read about I am assuming that you don't stop to explain to him that the characters are not real and you probably don't worry about what affect it will have on him when he learns that they are not real. So why not let god just be another one of his bedtime fairy tales until he is older?

Well that is my idea. Good luck to you Smile

Firstly, thanks.

He is smarter than I'd like him to be. Keeps me on my toes.

Jack and the Beanstalk, Little Red Riding Hood? All of these types of stories are clearly illustrated in the books. We watch all of the pixar films that are way out there. We love to pretend about being alien robots or minions. His imagination is fantastic and his ability to seperate these types of fiction from reality is fine. But there is always a picture for him to see and compare against reality.

God is an abstract concept. That's why he has questions. God is not easily illustrated as a superhero, or a dragon, or a mermaid, or at this point for him, anything that can be visually asserted and explained.

It would be easy for me to come up with whatever to satisfy his interest, but forgive me for taking this one concept a little more seriously than others and not wanting to fuck around with it, if I can help it.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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03-11-2013, 01:00 AM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(02-11-2013 09:32 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 09:25 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Are you more worried about him asking your parents and possibly outing you?

That's exactly what I'm worried about. I can handle my kid, I don't have any clue as to how my being "outed" to my parents will go.

Unfortunately, you can't control what your son says to his grandparents. So tread carefully. My kids were always lovely about sharing secrets or things I would have preferred stay private.

Once when my mother in law told my younger son that he came from the stork, he retorted that he came out my vagina. Right there at the dinner table. My father in law, who was hard of hearing, asked kiddo to repeat it.

Which of course he did.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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03-11-2013, 01:12 AM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(03-11-2013 01:00 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 09:32 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  That's exactly what I'm worried about. I can handle my kid, I don't have any clue as to how my being "outed" to my parents will go.

Unfortunately, you can't control what your son says to his grandparents. So tread carefully. My kids were always lovely about sharing secrets or things I would have preferred stay private.

Once when my mother in law told my younger son that he came from the stork, he retorted that he came out my vagina. Right there at the dinner table. My father in law, who was hard of hearing, asked kiddo to repeat it.

Which of course he did.

Well that's just fucking funny.

Girly's right, I'm just being a pussy. (hey, you are what you eat, no?)

I like my vagina status. It's easy to say shit when you're as old and decrepit as Girly.

It's not really about me, though. I don't want to hurt my family.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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03-11-2013, 01:18 AM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
"What's God?"
"Well, some people believe that <insert description here>. Others think <etc>. Some people think that's not really true."

That said, taking a similar approach with my daughter has lead her to out me Wink

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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03-11-2013, 07:53 AM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
My closet atheist parents showed me stuff about all the major religions when I was a preschooler. They showed me everything about everything I asked about. They had a lot of books on topics like biology and the universe and "how does this work" kind of stuff - all picture books for adults, not dumbed down kids versions. I was never told what to think, I was given all the facts from little on. No question remained unanswered, and all the answers were not biased in any way. They went through the trouble of putting stuff in context.

The result? I was heavily religious in grade school, all the kids were catholic, I went to church with them. It was a social thing. When I was 10 I read the bible, all of it, and decided those were a bunch of lousy fairy tales and that was the end of that.

My parents displayed tolerance toward religion. They never voiced an opinion about it - being atheist was unthinkable in their generation. They never made a fuss about religion in any way, and they let me ask all the questions I wanted of our religious relatives. They did not interfere when I had my religious phase, when I asked for a cross for my room it was provided.

I don't remember any conversations about religion at home save the one where dad showed me a book about all the major religions that had a lot of pics of cathedrals and temples and mosques and all kinds of religious architecture and art. I think I saw religions the way I saw foods - different places, different versions. A cultural thing. I think I was 4 years old when he handed me the book. It was one of many big, fat educational picture books for adults on a myriad of topics I was given. My room looked like a store for coffee table books.

I love the way my parents raised me. I wish they were still around so I could show my appreciation better.

So my advice is: Give answers to all questions - don't dumb it down. Give COMPLETE answers without bias. Treat religion as a cultural thing, like food or architecture. Don't hide it, but balance it with all the possibilities.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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03-11-2013, 12:18 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(03-11-2013 12:43 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  He is smarter than I'd like him to be.

No such thing. And you don't mean that. Tongue

(03-11-2013 01:12 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Girly's right, I'm just being a pussy. (hey, you are what you eat, no?)

I like my vagina status. It's easy to say shit when you're as old and decrepit as Girly.

It's not really about me, though. I don't want to hurt my family.

(02-11-2013 08:52 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  He then comments on a ladybug in the picture and I say something and quickly turn to a benign page, read a bit of it, start asking other weird questions about pictures and it's forgotten and done with.

Well I wasn't always old and decrepit. Tongue The main difference between the odd heathen and Girly is that Girly rejected dualism at the ripe old age of 17 and wasn't shy about it. Even the Catholic Church which married us knew I was an atheist hence the need to make my promise. If you're that worried about being outed as a rational agent and as a rational being you also realize it ain't a good idea to lie your boy, I think your initial strategy of divert, deflect and distract is probably the only viable option. Are you that certain of your family's reaction if they knew your personal metaphysics don't match theirs? Would they disown you? Or would they, like mine did, just be disappointed, got over it, and pray for you?

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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