Might soon be time to face the fire....
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03-11-2013, 12:39 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(03-11-2013 12:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-11-2013 12:43 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  He is smarter than I'd like him to be.

No such thing. And you don't mean that. Tongue

(03-11-2013 01:12 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Girly's right, I'm just being a pussy. (hey, you are what you eat, no?)

I like my vagina status. It's easy to say shit when you're as old and decrepit as Girly.

It's not really about me, though. I don't want to hurt my family.

(02-11-2013 08:52 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  He then comments on a ladybug in the picture and I say something and quickly turn to a benign page, read a bit of it, start asking other weird questions about pictures and it's forgotten and done with.

Well I wasn't always old and decrepit. Tongue The main difference between the odd heathen and Girly is that Girly rejected dualism at the ripe old age of 17 and wasn't shy about it. Even the Catholic Church which married us knew I was an atheist hence the need to make my promise. If you're that worried about being outed as a rational agent and as a rational being you also realize it ain't a good idea to lie your boy, I think your initial strategy of divert, deflect and distract is probably the only viable option. Are you that certain of your family's reaction if they knew your personal metaphysics don't match theirs? Would they disown you? Or would they, like mine did, just be disappointed, got over it, and pray for you?

Girly is a mere babe in the woods.Tongue

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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03-11-2013, 01:12 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(03-11-2013 12:18 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Are you that certain of your family's reaction if they knew your personal metaphysics don't match theirs? Would they disown you? Or would they, like mine did, just be disappointed, got over it, and pray for you?

I'm really not that certain exactly what their reaction would be. I know it would break my mom's heart. I think my dad might understand, but I know he'd be busted up about it as well. I don't think they'd necessarily disown me, but it would definitely change the dynamics of our relationship, and I'd like for that to not happen. Also, I'd be willing to bet that my wife would be dragged into at least some of it and that's not at all fair to her.

I don't want to lie to my kid, and I don't intend to. I've been thinking about this for a while but never actually anticipated the moment that he asked. I was caught like a deer in headlights.

Guess it just scared me is all, needed some support from you guys so thanks for that. I gotta man up and face it if I gotta face it.

Girly, you got any spare testosterone cream I could slap on my sac?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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03-11-2013, 01:33 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
Grunch.

Come up with a story that doesn't get him ( and you ) in trouble with your parents if he blabs it out, but make sure that he gets it as just story and not the truth.

Make god look like a superhero or something, put god in that category of imaginary beings, so he will easily grow out of it, while diminishing the threat of him saying "dad says god doesn't exist" in your parents presence.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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03-11-2013, 01:37 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(03-11-2013 01:12 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Girly, you got any spare testosterone cream I could slap on my sac?

I do. I've been stockpiling the shit for years 'cause when the Zombiepocalypse comes that shit's gonna be a heavily traded commodity second only to guns and ammo. But in your case it would probably be counterproductive. Big Grin

If I thought it really would hurt my family and cause them great distraught then I'd keep it on the down low too. But now I gotta walk that tightrope between not hurting them and not injuring my son with misinformation. It's now a test of my balance.

I'd deflect, divert and distract for as long as possible. ... Kinda like your typical politician. Big Grin

(03-11-2013 01:33 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Grunch.

Come up with a story that doesn't get him ( and you ) in trouble with your parents if he blabs it out, but make sure that he gets it as just story and not the truth.

Make god look like a superhero or something, put god in that category of imaginary beings, so he will easily grow out of it, while diminishing the threat of him saying "dad says god doesn't exist" in your parents presence.

You're not as dimwitted as your user name suggests. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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03-11-2013, 01:43 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
Btw, you people who have religious parents get all the fun of coming out as an atheists.

My father , who is some kind of a deist I guess , doesn't give a flying fuck about what I believe.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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03-11-2013, 01:53 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(03-11-2013 01:43 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Btw, you people who have religious parents get all the fun of coming out as an atheists.

My father , who is some kind of a deist I guess , doesn't give a flying fuck about what I believe.

If it happens, I'll be sure to let you know all about how much fun it was..... Rolleyes

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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03-11-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(03-11-2013 01:43 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Btw, you people who have religious parents get all the fun of coming out as an atheists.

My father , who is some kind of a deist I guess , doesn't give a flying fuck about what I believe.

That's like literally what I told my kids. All 4 turned out to be fine young atheists through no fault of mine. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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03-11-2013, 04:25 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
I'm loving this thread, so many great ideasSmile
I think you could portray god as a type of superhero, quite easily. Go to the library childrens section, they have so many books on the greek gods and heros loaded with pictures. They tell stories of them and their adventures and exploits also there are many books of world religions too. For fun you can find a book on all the monsters of greek myth too. What I'm saying is that you can lump the christian god with all these other gods he came to learn about. You can introduce the concept of mythology and legends. Teach him the meaning of metaphor, hyperbole, simile, allegory, and other literary conventions that are so prominent in these stories and the bible.
Explaining what god is can be difficult. It seems everyone has their very own definition. To your son I suppose you have to stress that god is not a literal entity. Your parents undoubtedly won't have that view but in any case god is real to them, they believe much like most of the world their own metaphor as a truth. This is why we have so much problems.
God as a metaphor is ultimate mystery, something that transcends all human thought, words, and ideas. God is everywhere and everything and within you, perhaps its the personification of your ultimate self of what you want to do, who you want to be..it's so damn complicated..I'm gonna stop nowTongue

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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03-11-2013, 04:44 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(02-11-2013 08:52 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  So tonight it happened.

Time for bed, time to read a book beforehand. He chose one that my parents got for him that I hadn't read or even noticed before. It's a book based on the alphabet and heavy on the jesus. I read the title and quizzically looked at my wife, she just said, "oh it's one your parents gave him, it's about morals".

Morals, okay that's cool, so we lay down in the bed and I start in. A.

A is for "ask God". I keep reading like everything is normal, he's three and it's never come up insofar.

"Who's god?" he interrupts.

I'm silent. I have no idea what to say to my three year old that would even come close to his level of understanding of the concept, even though he is a pretty sharp little shit. My wife just squeezes my foot and walks out of the room.

"God is......."

"Where's god? Who is he?"

"God is everywhere........" (I don't know what else to say)

He then comments on a ladybug in the picture and I say something and quickly turn to a benign page, read a bit of it, start asking other weird questions about pictures and it's forgotten and done with.

But I was floored. I'm not ready. He's heard the term "god" now a few times, and he knows that it's a term that means something. And when he hears it, he wants to know about it.

Here's the thing for those who don't know me well, my dad is a preacher and my mom is more religious than he is and I'm completely in the closet as an atheist. This shit is coming to a head, what with thanksgiving and christmas coming and all of the references of god that will be made and I don't have an explanation for my son and I sure as shit don't really want to explain to my family why I can't tell my son that god is real and yadda yadda.

I'm a little freaked out right now.

Thanksgiving and christmas might go off without a hitch. He might not say a word, but that's not like him. He wants to know about everything all of the time and he's not shy about asking. I think it would be very telling if I had to explain to him about god in front of my family.

Tonight it became very real that I don't know what the fuck I'm doing or how to handle this.

Sometimes these issues get resolved in a series of skirmishes instead of one big emotional blowout. In my case that's how it occurred. My family and I had various interactions over a period of time. It's taken 20+ years for them to go from, "we're praying for you" to "we're thinking of you and wishing you well" at the end of phone conversations. I like Slow's advice on your son's questions.
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03-11-2013, 04:50 PM
RE: Might soon be time to face the fire....
(03-11-2013 04:44 PM)Chopdoc Wrote:  Sometimes these issues get resolved in a series of skirmishes instead of one big emotional blowout. In my case that's how it occurred. My family and I had various interactions over a period of time. It's taken 20+ years for them to go from, "we're praying for you" to "we're thinking of you and wishing you well" at the end of phone conversations.

Mine still pray for me. Don't bother Girly none. Never has. "Pray for whatever the fuck you want Mom, ain't gonna make no shit of a difference." Which results in her just praying more for my sorry heathen ass. Whatevs. Drinking Beverage

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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