Militant Atheism?
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13-12-2012, 03:31 AM
Militant Atheism?
"If you look like prey, you will be eaten."
-Col Jeff Cooper

"If you scare your enemy good, you will not have to fight him."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War

This is on thread which I have not seen discussed here on this site. I know it's not really Seth's style, and there are a lot of good reasons for doing so.

But militant atheism and aggression can and should have their place. The reason being there are a lot of threats out there to atheists. In this country, they can be, and are routinely attacked by religious zealots who see their duty to God as to act as some sort of cheap thug and engage atheists and non-believers with whatever means necessary. In my line of work I'm living neck deep in Right Wing Fundamentalists. I have personally watched these snakes, trick, lie to, deceive, poison the reputations of, harass, get people fired, and/or destroy non believers. These assholes get away with it in part because there is a belief within the system that the Faithful are good whereas nonbelievers are evil and/or unrighteous. This makes a great cover for the god terrorists who can rely on the system and the authorities to strike back and punish atheists when god-gaga bastards finally provoke a reaction in us. It is a tactic commonly used by bullies to make their victims feel even more isolated and helpless. But its also in part to Atheists, who in general are good natured benevolent people, who allow this kind of shit without fighting back against it. We can address this public image concern in another thread (and it does need to be addressed), but for right now let's concentrate on addressing the threat posed by these little fascists which roam among us.

Now you might say this sounds like a declaration of war on Christianity or Judaism, or Islam, or insert-name-of-religion-here. The answer is no, it is not. I really don't mind Christians, or at least those who really follow the life example and teachings of Christ. Sure, Jesus was a rat bastard to Samarians and Fig Trees, but he has a lot of good advice for living an upstanding life. Be kind. Don't be a vainglorious bastard. Don't become too attached to or obsessed with money. Treat others as you would have them treat you. Forgive people of their faults and don't go out of your way to point them out. Search out your life and eliminate the bad features in it. Give from the heart not a sum on paper to brag about. You should be judged by how you treat the least among you. Don't be a hypocrite. These are all good points. I have a lot of Christian friends who I love and appreciate. I may see their belief as silly but the again I think the same thing about horoscopes. And in the big scheme of things there are a 1001 other things to have community over than a belief in God. And honestly most of them have never fully read the Bible anyway so a discussion of its merits is a pointless exercise. I am happy to discuss my reasons for being an atheist with a believer but I don't like saying things that just make people feel frustrated or unhappy. Questioning one's faith is a personal process and I don't believe its something that can be initiated from the outside. I will encourage people to think critically and will provide them with resources as to why faith is unnecessary and counterproductive if they want them. And as long as they want faith in their private lives, it's not my place to dictate what they do. It not my personal choice for how to run their lives but it is a free country. Live and let live.

Militant atheism should be directed at the fascist Christians, Muslims, Jews, and other freedom hating faith-enthralled shitkickers who wish to use their fundamentalist faith to cock whip and hold hostage everyone else to their religious ideologies. These people can and do need to be confronted both verbally and otherwise for the following reasons.

1) If your pussy god is so insecure that he cannot tolerate the presence of any mortal with a dissenting opinion of him and his writings and said god's only recourse is to employ you as some sort of cheap thug because he's too chickenshit to handle this outrage himself, he has hit the absolute nadir of his sovereignty and authority and deserves only to be ignored and forgotten.

2) Fear is a powerful motivator for respect. It's the reason the media is so cowed about portraying Islam in a bad light. "Shit on our prophet and we'll cut your fucking head off!" works on silencing the zealots and I don't say that because I promote violence. Far from it. But these fuckers live their lives chasing the carrot and fearing the stick from their sky daddy. There is some wisdom in speaking to them in a language they understand. When the wish to have a rational, respectful conversation, we'll be happy to do so. When the want to act like curs, we whack 'em over the butt with a rolled up newspaper and throw them out of the house!

3) It installs a sense of badly needed justice to atheists and makes sure their marks understand they will not get away with being a bully.

Now reaction to the ignorance of the faithful does require a great deal of discernment and sound judgment. There are the real pricks who are in dire need of a sound ass kicking but there are also the ignorant but benevolent types who just don't know any better but mean well and going after said people is counterproductive and cruel. We should always be aware of this and soundly evaluate the individual before proceeding.

End Part I. I'll finish Part II tomorrow

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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13-12-2012, 04:38 AM
RE: Militant Atheism?
Agreed militancy has its place.

My worries with militancy are:

1) What form should the militancy take, as the answer to this is probably that it depends on the situation, who is to determine what situations merit a specific or any forms of militancy i.e. what is our justification to go to war and what are the limitations of the war declared

2) How do we contain the negative impact of militancy, inevitably in any call to arms there will be innocents impacted.

Looking forward to part II

---------------------------------------------------------------
Knowledge can be given, Understanding must be earned
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13-12-2012, 05:15 AM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2012 11:28 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Militant Atheism?
Atheism, shmatheism. So when they do it, it's called "evangelization", and when their opponents do it, it's called "militant". How many "militant" Christians are out there.? When kids in white shirts and ties start going door to door with tracts about no gods, and people start coming up to me at school asking me if they can talk to me about having a personal relationship with their non-god, then they can start whining about "militant" atheism. They just can't stand the fact the world is changing, and another leap forward in the the scientific worldview is taking shape. Tough shit. They can get over it, or stick it up their ass. Big Grin

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating Yogi, CAAT-LY.
Living daily with the high tragedy of being #2 on Laramie Hirsch's ignore list.
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13-12-2012, 06:12 AM
RE: Militant Atheism?
And so the age old question, "Is there such thing as extremist Atheists," is answered; much to the chagrin of those that insist it's impossible.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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13-12-2012, 06:40 AM
RE: Militant Atheism?
(13-12-2012 06:12 AM)Ghost Wrote:  And so the age old question, "Is there such thing as extremist Atheists," is answered; much to the chagrin of those that insist it's impossible.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
I have yet to meet a person who claims atheism cannot be militant.

[Image: 4833fa13.jpg]
Poonjab
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13-12-2012, 07:04 AM
RE: Militant Atheism?
I'm not a militant atheist. I am a fundamentalist atheist.
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13-12-2012, 04:57 PM
RE: Militant Atheism?
I'm surprised to find myself oddly in agreement with the OP, probably because of the caveats about how ordinary, everyday believers are not targets. I'd have to ask, though:

What does militancy entail, in your mind? Is it just being verbally and intellectually confrontational and not making an effort to spare feelings? Or are we talking about an atheist version of the Black Panthers, geared towards physical defense against religious violence? (NORMALLY, when I hear "militant", I think weapons and combat.)

Where would you draw the line between acceptable religious behavior and not? Is door-to-door proselytizing okay if it's polite and smiling? How about choosing for themselves not to have social contact with atheists?

Looking forward to your answers in part 2.

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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13-12-2012, 05:52 PM
RE: Militant Atheism?
In my book 'militant' means vocal, activistic, direct, and often 'rude' (i.e. interpreted as insulting by the opposition), but in any case still within the law. Even if only just. 'Militant' does not mean physically or verbally violent, but assertive and outspoken. While 'extremistic' means violent (both physically and verbally), aggressive, and that the end (goal) legitimizes – in an extremist's mind – the means (generally including/involving illegal means).
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13-12-2012, 07:54 PM
RE: Militant Atheism?
Militancy is a misnomer, unless you're integrating Col. Cooper's "techniques" into your stratagem, if you know what I mean.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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