Military Chaplains
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24-06-2014, 10:04 PM
Military Chaplains
Should the U.S. military (or any other government agency) employ chaplains on the government payroll?
Or, should they be provided by the religious organizations at their own expense?
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25-06-2014, 07:39 PM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2014 07:45 PM by aurora.)
RE: Military Chaplains
Good question.
If it was left to the religious organizations to supply them at their own expense and they didn't and the consequence was detrimental to the religious troops in an emotional way, the families of the soldiers would hold the military responsible. So, imo, I don't think it would/will ever happen.
But food for thought, Pablo Thumbsup

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25-06-2014, 07:41 PM
RE: Military Chaplains
When my ex was in the Army we went to counseling with an Army Chaplain. Though he was an ordained minister, he didn't preach and his counseling was quite secular. At least from my experience I didn't see it to be that much different from the DoD hiring a social worker or a psychologist. He was more of a counselor that just happened to also be a minister.

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25-06-2014, 07:44 PM
RE: Military Chaplains
I think the military should get rid of them entirely.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-06-2014, 09:15 PM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2014 09:20 PM by pablo.)
RE: Military Chaplains
I should have elaborated more in my first post. Sorry.
There are chaplains who are also trained and degreed counselors, no problem there.
I'm more concerned with strictly religious chaplains. A counselor/psychologist should be able to cover any mental health or emotional needs that might arise. Are there really any spiritual needs that can be classed as an emergency?
Other than the costs of the salaries, the cost of feeding, clothing, housing, and training for a chaplain should get fairly expensive. Living space on a carrier or sub in the Navy must be at a premium on long deployments.
All this on top of the whole separation of church and state thing. I don't see them as being necessary.
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25-06-2014, 09:42 PM
RE: Military Chaplains
(25-06-2014 09:15 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  I should have elaborated more in my first post. Sorry.
There are chaplains who are also trained and degreed counselors, no problem there.
I'm more concerned with strictly religious chaplains. A counselor/psychologist should be able to cover any mental health or emotional needs that might arise. Are there really any spiritual needs that can be classed as an emergency?
Other than the costs of the salaries, the cost of feeding, clothing, housing, and training for a chaplain should get fairly expensive. Living space on a carrier or sub in the Navy must be at a premium on long deployments.
All this on top of the whole separation of church and state thing. I don't see them as being necessary.

Well, I don't see things changing much anytime soon, since the guys and ladies in combat out there are, after all, facing down death every day. I think that, until we as a nation and maybe as a species come to our senses on this superstition thing, there will be military chaplains catering to soldiers' superstitions.

I dunno, if I came up on an auto accident and someone was too far gone and taking their last breath and asked me to give them last rites or pray to their god(s) for them or whatever, I would do it. I don't agree with it, but I'll do whatever it takes to try and comfort someone who's on their way out.

I see a parallel with this whole business of chaplains in the military (and I assume we are pretty much just talking about the US military here, because I dunno what goes on with other countries' forces). I think that as long as there is a perceived need for things like religious last rites, there will be military chaplains.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-06-2014, 09:46 PM
RE: Military Chaplains
(25-06-2014 09:42 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 09:15 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  I should have elaborated more in my first post. Sorry.
There are chaplains who are also trained and degreed counselors, no problem there.
I'm more concerned with strictly religious chaplains. A counselor/psychologist should be able to cover any mental health or emotional needs that might arise. Are there really any spiritual needs that can be classed as an emergency?
Other than the costs of the salaries, the cost of feeding, clothing, housing, and training for a chaplain should get fairly expensive. Living space on a carrier or sub in the Navy must be at a premium on long deployments.
All this on top of the whole separation of church and state thing. I don't see them as being necessary.

Well, I don't see things changing much anytime soon, since the guys and ladies in combat out there are, after all, facing down death every day. I think that, until we as a nation and maybe as a species come to our senses on this superstition thing, there will be military chaplains catering to soldiers' superstitions.

I dunno, if I came up on an auto accident and someone was too far gone and taking their last breath and asked me to give them last rites or pray to their god(s) for them or whatever, I would do it. I don't agree with it, but I'll do whatever it takes to try and comfort someone who's on their way out.

I see a parallel with this whole business of chaplains in the military (and I assume we are pretty much just talking about the US military here, because I dunno what goes on with other countries' forces). I think that as long as there is a perceived need for things like religious last rites, there will be military chaplains.

You make good points I hadn't considered. Thumbsup
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25-06-2014, 10:03 PM
RE: Military Chaplains
(25-06-2014 09:46 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 09:42 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Well, I don't see things changing much anytime soon, since the guys and ladies in combat out there are, after all, facing down death every day. I think that, until we as a nation and maybe as a species come to our senses on this superstition thing, there will be military chaplains catering to soldiers' superstitions.

I dunno, if I came up on an auto accident and someone was too far gone and taking their last breath and asked me to give them last rites or pray to their god(s) for them or whatever, I would do it. I don't agree with it, but I'll do whatever it takes to try and comfort someone who's on their way out.

I see a parallel with this whole business of chaplains in the military (and I assume we are pretty much just talking about the US military here, because I dunno what goes on with other countries' forces). I think that as long as there is a perceived need for things like religious last rites, there will be military chaplains.

You make good points I hadn't considered. Thumbsup

Well, I sound TAPS at veterans' funerals. It's very much a ritual, and in the big picture it's rather an empty ritual for an atheist and doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be doing, but I can't tell you how much it means to the families to have a live bugler and not a shitty tinny-ass recording. I dunno, the bottom line is, I guess, when someone needs comforting, it makes sense to put your hand out ("'cause that's what it's there for") and give them the comfort they need or ask for.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-06-2014, 10:17 PM
RE: Military Chaplains
(25-06-2014 10:03 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(25-06-2014 09:46 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  You make good points I hadn't considered. Thumbsup

Well, I sound TAPS at veterans' funerals. It's very much a ritual, and in the big picture it's rather an empty ritual for an atheist and doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be doing, but I can't tell you how much it means to the families to have a live bugler and not a shitty tinny-ass recording. I dunno, the bottom line is, I guess, when someone needs comforting, it makes sense to put your hand out ("'cause that's what it's there for") and give them the comfort they need or ask for.

I agree, I would never, ever consider stomping on someones beliefs in situations like you've described.
That would put me in the same category as the Westboro Baptist Church crowd, who are despicable.
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25-06-2014, 10:32 PM
RE: Military Chaplains
One last thing and I'll drop it.
I'm not saying they have to go completely, I just have a problem mostly with our taxes paying for religious personnel that represent religions that don't pay taxes.
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