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Military Coddlers
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10-09-2011, 03:48 AM
Military Coddlers
Although I think most people already know on the forum, let's make it clear that I served in the air force, along with my dad and my husband and a heck a lot of my friends...

so on with the show.

I'm sure many of you Americans on this forum have heard of the hapless idiot, Soulja boy, a rapper who had the 'gall' to condemn the military and rap 'fuck the troops' and other stuff like this.

All of my friends, co-workers, family, and just about everyone I know is all up in arms about a few simple lines, from rappers who regularly sing about beating women and killing cops or other gang members.

I'm totally sick of America coddling the military, it's stupid and creepy and needs to stop. Anyone who says a single thing that does not ring true with 'support the troops' is branded as unamerican, unpatriotic and often told with glee, 'America, love it or leave it'.

Today's American military is the most coddled, self serving, and entitled bunch of brats that ever had the honor of putting on the uniform. With how military members are acting it makes me almost ashamed to have served.

Who else thinks that the military is taking things to seriously? And the American public has went from 'supportive' to 'stalker like'?

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10-09-2011, 04:45 AM (This post was last modified: 10-09-2011 04:51 AM by Filox.)
RE: Military Coddlers
Aaaaand here I come again with my comments on USA... Smile

What I have seen about the USA and their military is that you allow way too young people in the service. I mean, how can you expect somebody who is 16, 17, 18 years old to be responsible soldier with gun? 21 should be the minimum and you would get rid of most of the problems monkeyshine just mentioned. Plus, I would introduce an education minimum, it is not enough if you know how to shoot a gun, specially if you want to be an officer in the army. No officers could be officers without some kind of college, nobody could join the army without finishing elementary or even high school, something like that.

Concerning the politics and meddling into other counties and their affairs, there are good and bad sides of the story. Good is that you do help some counties form time to time and you help the whole world by getting rid of some crazy dictators who control the whole region around them, but the bad things are the background of those actions, the killings, wars, all sorts of thing that come with military actions. You could do better if you were to raise the minimum year requirement for joining and to keep the discipline in foreign countries more strict and careful. Also, educate your soldiers more, a lot of them comes into countries they can not even find on a map. This is a fact I got from a friend who works for Croatian military and was cooperating with USA troops on some kind of a seminar in Germany where he talked to some soldiers who lived in Italy (military base) for a year and did not know where is Italy on a map, nor did they ever heard for Croatia and Croatia and Italy are neighboring countries. That is a bit silly if you ask me.

As for that repper, you should send him to Afghanistan for a few months, then he will have something to rap about. Who cares what some mamma's-boy has to say, never worked a day in his life probably and has elementary school finished at best.

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10-09-2011, 06:04 AM
RE: Military Coddlers
(10-09-2011 04:45 AM)Filox Wrote:  Aaaaand here I come again with my comments on USA... Smile

What I have seen about the USA and their military is that you allow way too young people in the service. I mean, how can you expect somebody who is 16, 17, 18 years old to be responsible soldier with gun? 21 should be the minimum and you would get rid of most of the problems monkeyshine just mentioned. Plus, I would introduce an education minimum, it is not enough if you know how to shoot a gun, specially if you want to be an officer in the army. No officers could be officers without some kind of college, nobody could join the army without finishing elementary or even high school, something like that.

Concerning the politics and meddling into other counties and their affairs, there are good and bad sides of the story. Good is that you do help some counties form time to time and you help the whole world by getting rid of some crazy dictators who control the whole region around them, but the bad things are the background of those actions, the killings, wars, all sorts of thing that come with military actions. You could do better if you were to raise the minimum year requirement for joining and to keep the discipline in foreign countries more strict and careful. Also, educate your soldiers more, a lot of them comes into countries they can not even find on a map. This is a fact I got from a friend who works for Croatian military and was cooperating with USA troops on some kind of a seminar in Germany where he talked to some soldiers who lived in Italy (military base) for a year and did not know where is Italy on a map, nor did they ever heard for Croatia and Croatia and Italy are neighboring countries. That is a bit silly if you ask me.

As for that repper, you should send him to Afghanistan for a few months, then he will have something to rap about. Who cares what some mamma's-boy has to say, never worked a day in his life probably and has elementary school finished at best.

You need to be 18 years old to serve. You can enlist at 17, but cannot go to boot camp until you are 18. You also need a GED (high school equivalent test) to enlist in the service as well, and in the case of Navy and Air Force you need a high school degree, no exceptions.

That's probably a rare occurrence what you are talking about, most people know where Italy is because it's shaped like a boot. As far as Croatia goes, it's a rather small country, can you find Kiribati or Armenia on a map?

This really isn't so much about the American military and the world, but the American military in America.

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10-09-2011, 07:19 AM
RE: Military Coddlers
One of the things that annoy me about the military is people seem to think its above criticism, if you say anything even slightly negative suddenly you are public enemy number 1. Nothing is above criticism even the military.

Having a go at soldiers for doing their job when they arn't doing anything wrong is just stupid. Its the powers that put them there that people should be annoyed at.

I have nothing but respect for people who are willing to step up to defend their country.
I feel sorry for the people who do it these days because they join to protect their familys and their countrys then govenments often use them as pawns for their own agendas usually for resources (the iraq war).
These people who are willing to put their lifes at risk for their countrys deserve far better than what they are currently getting.

Ive not actually heard Soulja boy's song but since hes a rapper theres a good chance that hes a complete tool talking shit and overcompensating for tiny genetalia with casual misogyny,talking about guns and how much money he has.

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10-09-2011, 07:33 AM
RE: Military Coddlers
(10-09-2011 07:19 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  One of the things that annoy me about the military is people seem to think its above criticism, if you say anything even slightly negative suddenly you are public enemy number 1. Nothing is above criticism even the military.

I agree very much with that statement.
Quote:Having a go at soldiers for doing their job when they arn't doing anything wrong is just stupid. Its the powers that put them there that people should be annoyed at.

It's mean to have a go at anyone for an arbitrary reason, but it's perfectly acceptable to not like soldiers.
Quote:I have nothing but respect for people who are willing to step up to defend their country.

I give respect to people who earn it. Just raising your right hand and enlisting is not enough to just automatically gain respect. The amount of DBA/DBS/DBM/ (dirt bag airman/soldier/sailor/marine) to non dirt bags is rather high in the military. One has to realize that most military jobs DO NOT see combat, this is not limited to the air force.

[quoteI feel sorry for the people who do it these days because they join to protect their familys and their countrys then govenments often use them as pawns for their own agendas usually for resources (the iraq war).
These people who are willing to put their lifes at risk for their countrys deserve far better than what they are currently getting. [/quote]

Do you realize how much military folks get paid? For little to no education they get excellent pay and free healthcare. Along with free college, and a plethora of other entitlements, yet they keep asking for more. Our job is less dangerous then cops, firefighters, electricians, doctors, and nurses, yet we constantly have much better benefits then they do... and it's because of the mentality that they are 'fighting for our rights'.... yet even you admit that the war is totally unjustified.
Quote:Ive not actually heard Soulja boy's song but since hes a rapper theres a good chance that hes a complete tool talking shit and overcompensating for tiny genetalia with casual misogyny,talking about guns and how much money he has.

Oh it's just another stupid rap song, but I don't think this is the reason we should be down on him, it's fucking stupid that people keep thinking we should bend over backwards for the military... they are acting 10 times as sensitive as Christians right now... and that's pretty bad.

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10-09-2011, 09:00 AM (This post was last modified: 14-09-2011 01:11 AM by Thammuz.)
RE: Military Coddlers
I'm a navy instructor and see loads of morons in my classes. The standards are so incredibly low and practically EVERYONE has to pass. Most people dropped out of high school and can't even write without making loads of severe spelling mistakes in their native tongue. I really wonder how it must be in the other schools, because the course I give is supposed to be one of the hardest. I don't expect the recruits to be any smarter there...

Bottom line is; there's a severe personnel shortage. Standards are lowered to fill the gaps as much as possible, resignations are restricted and career switches are kept to the minimum. If I wasn't able to ge some nice certificates and obtain my college degree, I would've been long gone too.

Armed forces are often stuck with those idiots because the smart guys&girls don't want to get blasted to bits on the front lines. Combine that with the stress of missions abroad and you've got a potential recipe for disaster.


The media also seem to love focusing on army people (same goes for cops). If a grunt or cop fucks things up, his profession will be mentioned in the headlines. If it's a painter, vegan chef, accountant, supermarket cashier or hairdresser, nobody will care about his profession. Brings me to this formula:


Media that focus on sensation + loads of idiots + low standards = good guys get the piss for no reason at all


I'm proud of what I've accomplished, but not because I wear the uniform. I'm proud of what I did WEARING that uniform. Everyone has to prove himself. Just wearing the uniform doesn't make you a smarter, better or cooler person. It should symbolize your will to sacrifice yourself to better the world. Most people seem to forget that.



Edit: typo

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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10-09-2011, 10:21 AM
RE: Military Coddlers
Monkeyshine i actually agree with everything you just said.

When I said I feel sorry for them I was referring to the ones that are dying or horribly wounded for a pointless cause whether down to the failure of politicians or down to the grabbing of resources (which Unfortunatly recent and future wars will be about) not the ones in Non combatant jobs.

Is the dirtbag thing because the military will take almost anyone? Or does it have some standards?, I'm not sure how it works no one in my family is currently in the military my uncle was an officer with the RAF but is now retired and i avoid recruiters so I've never asked about what benefits they get.

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11-09-2011, 04:33 PM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2011 04:40 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: Military Coddlers
I can't reply to coddling, because i'm not sure what it means.

Certainly, they get far too much press and far too much maudlin praise.

On the other hand, they're sent off to crazy places for crazy reasons, insufficiently prepared and not always appropriately equipped, and getting blown to bits -
which isn't my idea of how to treat "our brave boys and girls".

On the third hand, once they're finished their stint in whichever country the bosses want turned into a hellhole, officialdom doesn't seem to care if they're physically or emotionally damaged, if they have no livelihood, if they're lost their place in society and can't find another. Agencies and hospitals exist, but they're woefully inadequate, from what i've been hearing.

This is a consumer society. The latest, fashionable thing is the bestest, most wonderfulest - and when you've used it up, throw it away.

I guess that boils down to a NO.

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11-09-2011, 06:28 PM
 
RE: Military Coddlers
(10-09-2011 07:19 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  I have nothing but respect for people who are willing to step up to defend their country.

Especially those who bomb weddings to ratshit in defense of their country.

But I know what you mean in the rest of your post...
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12-09-2011, 01:50 AM
RE: Military Coddlers
(11-09-2011 04:33 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  I can't reply to coddling, because i'm not sure what it means.

Certainly, they get far too much press and far too much maudlin praise.

On the other hand, they're sent off to crazy places for crazy reasons, insufficiently prepared and not always appropriately equipped, and getting blown to bits -
which isn't my idea of how to treat "our brave boys and girls".

On the third hand, once they're finished their stint in whichever country the bosses want turned into a hellhole, officialdom doesn't seem to care if they're physically or emotionally damaged, if they have no livelihood, if they're lost their place in society and can't find another. Agencies and hospitals exist, but they're woefully inadequate, from what i've been hearing.

This is a consumer society. The latest, fashionable thing is the bestest, most wonderfulest - and when you've used it up, throw it away.

I guess that boils down to a NO.

Coddling means overly cuddly, almost cumbersome, with lots of affection and attention, a coddled child is a spoiled child.

Oh yes, they get waay to much free press, and I think it's both the military's and the media's fault for pressing the issue on people. The media used to be critical of the military and their operations, but not it seems they are just professional ass kissers, which to me is a dangerous road to walk down. The military has also seemed the target of blind patriotism and misguided praise. For instance, 9/11, which should be a day in remembrance of police officers and firefighters has once again turned into a patriotic love fest of the military...

I agree the government sends us to crazy places, but usually we are highly trained and prepared. As far is equipment goes... well it's hit or miss, but that's more of a military issue than a government issue

Actually they do have pretty good organizations for veterans and 'wounded warriors', but a lot of times when they come back the openly reject the military and it's organizations (which is understandable)... so they really can't reach them. As far as psychological damage, that's increasingly being addressed by the higher ups. To be honest I think the military benefits for injury while in action are a pretty good deal compared to regular old workman's comp.

The problem is we keep elevating military status above civilians, which isn't right. What's worse is that military members are now accustomed to it and demand better treatment then their civilian counterparts. However to me, that's increasingly falling on deaf ears.

They are well aware of the risks when signing up, even if their recruiter is not forth right with them, a simple google can tell them the stats (OPSEC anyone lol). Ask any military member why they really signed up and they will always tell you (patriotic bullshit aside) they did it for the steady job and benefits. While they serve they collect great pay and benefits for their education and skill level for them and their family, showered with public adoration. When they finally get out they continue to have good benefits, and if they squander them, well that's their problem.

Anyways... I've really not been clear with what I want to discuss... Public support and praise and military entitlement...

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