Mind=blown
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21-06-2016, 09:00 PM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2016 09:05 AM by Sam663.)
Mind=blown
Hi. So yesterday a Christian emailed me Gordon-Conwell's Pdf file and it's title is
"CHRISTIAN MARTYRDOM: A GLOBAL DEMOGRAPHIC ASSESSMENT". It's also the source of the ill repute claim that 100,000 Christians die every year because of religious persecution. Laugh out load You can read it here:
https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/Story/...rtyrs.aspx

So I was reading it, until I came upon this astonishing claim that Hulaku Khan killed 1,100,000 Christians when he captured Baghdad in 1258! How the hell is that even possible when at that time Baghdad was the capital of Islamic Abbasid Caliphate, and Kingdom of Georgia was Hulaku's ally?

Another startling claim is that Genghis Khan killed 1,000,000 Christians when he sacked Herat, even though before the sack of Herat three different Islamic empires ruled over Herat and before the Islamic invasion most of the population of Herat was following Zoroastrianism. Though I know most of you guys are not historians, but certainly we can debunk most of the astonishing claims made by the author of this article. The author's email address is:
"tjohnson@gordonconwell.edu".
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21-06-2016, 09:49 PM
RE: Mind=blown
(21-06-2016 09:00 PM)Sam663 Wrote:  Hi. So yesterday a Christian emailed me Gordon-Conwell's Pdf file and it's title is
"CHRISTIAN MARTYRDOM: A GLOBAL DEMOGRAPHIC ASSESSMENT". It's also the source of the ill repute claim that 100,000 Christians die every year because of religious persecution. Laugh out load You can read it here:
https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/Story/...rtyrs.aspx

So I was reading it, until I came upon this astonishing claim that Hulaku Khan killed 1,100,000 Christians when he captured Baghdad in 1258! How the hell is that even possible when at that time Baghdad was the capital of Islamic Abbasid Caliphate, and Kingdom of Georgia was Hulaku's ally?

Another startling claim is that Genghis Khan killed 1,000,000 Christians when he sacked Herat, even though before the sack of Baghdad three different Islamic empires ruled over Herat and before the Islamic invasion most of the population of Herat was following Zoroastrianism. Though I know most of you guys are not historians, but certainly we can debunk most of the astonishing claims made by the author of this article. The author's email address is:
"tjohnson@gordonconwell.edu".

I suppose if they stretch the definition of martyrdom enough the numbers will work.
From the article:
Johnson, an associate professor of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Massachusetts, explained that those estimates were based on an expanded definition of martyrs as “believers in Christ who have lost their lives prematurely, in situations of witness, as a result of human hostility.”
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21-06-2016, 09:57 PM
RE: Mind=blown
(21-06-2016 09:49 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(21-06-2016 09:00 PM)Sam663 Wrote:  Hi. So yesterday a Christian emailed me Gordon-Conwell's Pdf file and it's title is
"CHRISTIAN MARTYRDOM: A GLOBAL DEMOGRAPHIC ASSESSMENT". It's also the source of the ill repute claim that 100,000 Christians die every year because of religious persecution. Laugh out load You can read it here:
https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/Story/...rtyrs.aspx

So I was reading it, until I came upon this astonishing claim that Hulaku Khan killed 1,100,000 Christians when he captured Baghdad in 1258! How the hell is that even possible when at that time Baghdad was the capital of Islamic Abbasid Caliphate, and Kingdom of Georgia was Hulaku's ally?

Another startling claim is that Genghis Khan killed 1,000,000 Christians when he sacked Herat, even though before the sack of Baghdad three different Islamic empires ruled over Herat and before the Islamic invasion most of the population of Herat was following Zoroastrianism. Though I know most of you guys are not historians, but certainly we can debunk most of the astonishing claims made by the author of this article. The author's email address is:
"tjohnson@gordonconwell.edu".

I suppose if they stretch the definition of martyrdom enough the numbers will work.
From the article:
Johnson, an associate professor of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Massachusetts, explained that those estimates were based on an expanded definition of martyrs as “believers in Christ who have lost their lives prematurely, in situations of witness, as a result of human hostility.”

I wonder how many of those were True Christians™. Convenient to redefine the definition like that.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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22-06-2016, 06:08 AM
RE: Mind=blown
(21-06-2016 09:49 PM)pablo Wrote:  I suppose if they stretch the definition of martyrdom enough the numbers will work.
From the article:
Johnson, an associate professor of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Massachusetts, explained that those estimates were based on an expanded definition of martyrs as “believers in Christ who have lost their lives prematurely, in situations of witness, as a result of human hostility.”

Well then by that definition every Muslim is a Christian martyr. But the article is saying that Hulaku massacred 1,100,000 followers of Christ when he sacked Baghdad. Baghdad population would have been no higher than a million at that time and the majority of them were Muslims. It's like saying Ottomans massacred 1,100,000 Buddhists when they captured Constantinople.

While the reality is:
"Bar Hebraeus and the Armenian writers explained that the Christian population was entirely spared......."
http://www.medievalists.net/2013/08/20/h...ongol-way/
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22-06-2016, 06:11 AM
RE: Mind=blown
It's just sheer dishonesty.
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22-06-2016, 08:41 AM
RE: Mind=blown
Those Zoroastrians were about to convert, don't you know? Sheer dishonesty is right.
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22-06-2016, 08:56 AM
RE: Mind=blown
That's hilarious that conference was at Notre Dame, when a professor there wrote this :

https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Persecution-...ndida+moss

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-06-2016, 12:46 PM
RE: Mind=blown
I don't understand why so many modern Christians want to make a big deal out of being martyred or persecuted for their beliefs. It's a big red flag that maybe they are wrong, how can they expect to convince anyone they are right and to join them as a Christian when they are being treated so badly all the time? Of course they're just making that shit up and most people actually agree with them but you cant' really expect others to join up when they're crying about every damn law that tries to treat everyone equally. I'd rather stay away because they are morally abhorrent jerks but also who wants to be martyred? I'd rather live for my beliefs than die for some imaginary god myth, thanks.

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22-06-2016, 01:08 PM
RE: Mind=blown
(22-06-2016 12:46 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I don't understand why so many modern Christians want to make a big deal out of being martyred or persecuted for their beliefs. It's a big red flag that maybe they are wrong, how can they expect to convince anyone they are right and to join them as a Christian when they are being treated so badly all the time? Of course they're just making that shit up and most people actually agree with them but you cant' really expect others to join up when they're crying about every damn law that tries to treat everyone equally. I'd rather stay away because they are morally abhorrent jerks but also who wants to be martyred? I'd rather live for my beliefs than die for some imaginary god myth, thanks.

[Image: victimcard.jpg]

Because then they can say that they've had it harder then anyone.

What the Jew's were persecuted for their belief's? What about us and our beliefs we were killed for sport during ancient Rome.

What a gay couple is trying to buy a wedding cake! What about my beliefs? You're stepping on things I believe so that makes me more right. And I believe that they are going to burn in hell for loving each other, and wanting to show it. I don't want that shit on my hands. Boo hoo poor me I'm so persecuted.

No one wants to blame the victim. So if they play the victim then they don't have to answer for their stance.

Leave us alone where not hurting anybody. Just people that don't agree with us.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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22-06-2016, 01:20 PM
RE: Mind=blown
(21-06-2016 09:00 PM)Sam663 Wrote:  ... Though I know most of you guys are not historians, but certainly we can debunk most of the astonishing claims made by the author of this article.

Being historian isn't necessary to spot bullshit. As for debunking I see no sense in it. You can't convince those who want believe in christians being persecuted and others don't care and/or are capable of fact check.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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