Mininum Wage Protest
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05-12-2013, 02:50 AM
RE: Mininum Wage Protest
(05-12-2013 02:19 AM)Anudist Wrote:  
(05-12-2013 01:50 AM)BryanS Wrote:  It's 'abuse' to pay someone what the fruits of their labor are worth? You expect people to pay more than what the value of the work they perform is worth? This is more bullshit socialist twaddle.

I made only one point in my post, which you conveniently failed to address in your tangential "argument". My one point was that if we went and doubled minimum wages for my example of the fast food industry, it would in fact be cheaper just to lay most employees off and replace them with machines at that point. You fail to address the indisputable fact that if the cost of labor is more than available technology that could replace this labor, the company can just replace eliminate those employees.

Machines don't need vacation, don't need holiday pay, don't have attendance problems, don't need health insurance, and don't need 'living wages'. Wouldn't it be great if we just jacked up minimum wage and replaced everyone with machines? Than whiny, pontificating, guilt-ridden moralizers such as you won't have to feel uncomfortable being served by a low wage employee.

There is a reason why they haven't moved to that already. They rely on the low wage earners to eat at their restaurants, not to mention keep people from boycotting their stores altogether out of sheer disgust.

There is no justification for the assertion that large fast food companies keep more labor than they need just so they have customers. A company whose sole purpose is to rely entirely on the income of its employees to buy its products that it then pays its employees to produce will be a failed company. Its employees cannot survive if they put 100% of their income into buying fast food, so ultimately employee wages will not return to the company and this company would fail fast.

You alternatively are making the fatuous claim that all companies and industries together conspire to keep all low wage earners as low wage earners solely for the purpose of developing a market of customers that have no money to buy their products.

Quote:This, without mentioning the fact that these companies are making money hand over fist, and somehow rightwing morons keep thinking that money going all the way to the top without any of it making it's way to the bottom is completely acceptable. Trickle down economics my ass. If these companies are fine with making the social safety net a part of their business model, it is the duty of the government to ensure that they are putting more into the pot to pay for it. That, or force them to actually give a damn about their employees wages, since they obviously can't or won't do it on their own.

Is there an argument you are trying to make here? Other than whiny appeals to emotion?
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05-12-2013, 03:35 AM
RE: Mininum Wage Protest
(04-12-2013 09:05 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(04-12-2013 06:30 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  There's gonna be toilet scrubbers in every society.
BUT when you have no education and no skills wtf do you expect?

It bothers me that people drop out of school at like 14 and than go into flipping burgers and than all they do is complain about how shit "society" has fucked them over.
There's no accountability for one's own actions anymore. It's always their fault, never my fault. This is why I hate poor people.
In this case it's societies or the man's fault. The fact that they dropped out of school at 14 and/or have no skills is entirely irrelevant in their eyes.

What the OP is saying is just this. People blame everyone else but fail to address the actual problem, them.
In the OP's case, his mother was in a shitty situation and rather than bitch and whine and blame society or the man she got off her ass and worked her way up the ladder. And bloody good on her I say.

That's how you get a head in life, you educate yourself, you get skills, you save, you work hard etc.. Work ethic and ambition is the only thing that separates those that move up and those that stay down.

Not all poor people are lazy and uneducated. You can hate me all you want, but I am educated and working in furthering my education. I also know the difference between then and than, so there's that...

I got nothing against poor people trying to work their way up calm ya tits son.

It's the likes of Brian who've flipped burgers or washed dishes their whole lives and who have done nothing about it but complain about how society and the man screwed them over.

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05-12-2013, 05:09 AM
RE: Mininum Wage Protest
(04-12-2013 01:26 AM)BryanS Wrote:  The fast food workers protesting recently over wages don't seem to realize how easy it would be (and more cost effective) to replace many of them with ATMs and machines rather than doubling their wages.

It's not even that, if the fast food employees quit right now, there would be others who would do those jobs. Maybe better.
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05-12-2013, 05:48 AM
RE: Mininum Wage Protest
(05-12-2013 03:35 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(04-12-2013 09:05 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Not all poor people are lazy and uneducated. You can hate me all you want, but I am educated and working in furthering my education. I also know the difference between then and than, so there's that...

I got nothing against poor people trying to work their way up calm ya tits son.

It's the likes of Brian who've flipped burgers or washed dishes their whole lives and who have done nothing about it but complain about how society and the man screwed them over.

Listen asshole, this isn't just about me. Idiots like you think "pursuit of happiness means "pursuit of wealth".

I want an educated society even the bottom, a more educated society a more stable society. A society that can pay its bills is less dependent on government, not more. You think I am making poverty some type of loyalty issue? Fuck you!

I have made absolutely no demands that everyone be poor like me. Saying that our bottom is dropping further to the point of creating more poverty is not demanding a Stalin like nanny state where everyone makes the same. FUCKWAD!

I have an honest job that you don't want to do. Your judgmental bullshit is your baggage not mine.

Don't ever set foot where I work I will spit in your food! You jaded selfish judgmental asshole!

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05-12-2013, 06:41 AM
RE: Mininum Wage Protest
How can you spit in my food? You wash the dishes... They obviously don't think your qualified to flip my burger patty.

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05-12-2013, 06:50 AM
RE: Mininum Wage Protest
It's not even that, if the fast food employees quit right now, there would be others who would do those jobs. Maybe better.
[/quote]

"I work better and am more reliable than most Mr. Manager, l will put in maximum effort even for minimum wage." - I'll say something like this when I go looking for a second job as a burger flipper, surely the guy in charge will be someone who understands business expense to an entrepreneur degree.

I'm quicker to jump on a job than most this in life.
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05-12-2013, 07:17 AM
RE: Mininum Wage Protest
There are larger issues in play with this protest, more thant he workers themselves realize. The fact is that the system does not provide a level playing field and it is very much gamed. McDonald's benefits from agricultural subsidies and a failed educational system, and all that combines to them making big bucks. I don't begrudge them making big bucks, but I do begrudge my tax dollars going to farm subisidies that allow McDonald's to sell a burger for a buck and still make a $0.30 profit (of whatever it is) on that burger. I also resent that they get rich by paying their work force nothing and I have to pick up the difference and cover those people on food, medicaid, etc.

The fact is that the systemic destruction of the American middle class is the real problem here. There was a time in this country that a man with little education could get a job that provided a middle class life style for his family - all on one income. Once upon a time the US was the worlds leader in manufacturing and we produced everything. Ayn Rand acoltyes like Frank will tell you that we could have all that again if only the govenrment would get rid of all regulations, taxes, etc. It's pure bullshit, though. For most of this countries history we had none of those things and we also had a huge divide. You were rich or you were poor. For most of America, there was no middle class. Sure, there were always some people in the middle, but we did not have a sustained middle class standard of living like we have had since the end of WWII. We flirted briefly with on after WWI but it all came carshing down at the end of the 1920s and didn't come back until the last 1940s.

The real cause/effect of our middle class growth was that, as of 1946, the world outside of the United States was divided into key catagories: you were either a former ally with a massively reduced population who was bombed back almost to the stone age and had little, or no, manufacutring capability of your own and owed the US an incredible amount of money in war debts, or you were a formerl enemy with a massively reduced population who was bombed back almost to the stone age and had little, or no, manufacturing capability of your own, owed the US an incredible amount of money in war reparations AND now had an extremely pro-US government/puppet regime running your country who would do pretty much whatever Washington DC told you to do - because what fucking choice did you have?

Countries from neither catagory were in any position to provide any kind of competition to the manufacturing behemouth that was the US as of 1946. Outside of one military base, the US had not been touched by the war. After Dec 7, 1941 not a single bomb dropped on the US, so all our manufacturing capability was untouched. Our cities were not in ruins. Our civilian populations were fine. Sure, we lost a lot of men in the wars but nearly as many as everyone else did. When you look at the conditions of Europe and Asia, it's no wonder the US economy just rolled on at that point.

It took almost 2 generations for everyone else to catch up, but they have. The manufactering and lower skilled jobs are gone, and they are not coming back. A lot of so-called white collar jobs are going over seas too. Jobs with computers, finance, etc. are all being outsourced to lower cost economies. Companies are now multinational and that puts them in a position to survive even if most Americans can't afford their producs anymore. We survive on debt and tax payer funded subsidies. The idea that just getting rid of taxes and minimum wage is going to resolve these issues is absurd, too. The problem is no one seems to know how to fix it. The democrats think the solution is to feed the beast. The republicans think the solution is to starve it. Both sides have been proven wrong multiple times, and both sides are totally corrupted by big money donations that prevent them from trying anything new or radical.

As for the immediate issue of people at McDonald's wanting $15/hr, it's not going to happen. Go learn a trade. The other problem in this country is we are losing our skilled tradesmen. We have plenty of unemployed people with liberal arts degrees but not nearly enough plumbers, electrians and carpenters.

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05-12-2013, 07:29 AM
RE: Mininum Wage Protest
(05-12-2013 06:41 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  How can you spit in my food? You wash the dishes... They obviously don't think your qualified to flip my burger patty.

You are that fucking stupid? You think the machine is in a different building and I don't get close to food or access it? FUCKWAD! The cooks and waitresses ask for my help all the time with food transfer, from pan to dish. Idiots like you think the only thing I do is wash dishes. That is my title, but that is not the only thing I do. They sometimes ask me to get sides or put toast in the toaster or hand the cooks bread. If their trays are too full sometimes I carry that extra plate out for them.

I also bus tables and do a shitload of cleaning.

Take your jaded ass and go fuck yourself. There are plenty of middle class and rich people who are not snobs like you. Your childish attempt to shame me won't work.

Seriously don't ever eat out, or buy food at a 7-11 or buy at Wall Mart, or buy at a quick stop gas station. If you hate us so much, then why the fuck to you go into those places at all? FUCKING MORON!

You know why I am being such an asshole and cussing you out? Because I want you to remember this post, the next time you purchase something and hand your money over to a poor person behind that counter. That is a person, not your personal punching bag.

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05-12-2013, 07:40 AM
RE: Mininum Wage Protest
I don't need to shame you, you do a pretty good job of that yourself.
Now shss you and clear my table.

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05-12-2013, 07:49 AM
RE: Mininum Wage Protest
(05-12-2013 07:40 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I don't need to shame you, you do a pretty good job of that yourself.
Now shss you and clear my table.

Listen coward, if you think I should be ashamed put your pathetic mouth in motion and the next time you frequent a business who has a middle age or old person behind that counter, call them a loser to their face. You don't have the fucking guts.

The only person who should be ashamed is you. You're just too fucking delusional and jaded to see it.

And I am actually glad you are making yourself look like a fool, it is allowing workers of all job titles to see that they don't have to put up with your bullshit.

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