Miracles, prophetic dreams and evile eye?
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23-04-2017, 09:48 AM
RE: Miracles, prophetic dreams and evile eye?
(23-04-2017 05:18 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  
(23-04-2017 04:54 AM)no_reason Wrote:  Not all greeks have the evil eye ability but my mom said to me that there are some people who have the ability to affect other people I don't know if it's true and I don't believe in evil eye but I see and I hear some weird stories about miracles,prophetic dreams and evil eye and I want to listen your opinions about them.

I see, yeah.

All I can do is offer what appears to be the most likely explanation. It is well known how easily fooled people can be by confirmation bias (like with prayer). Nothing out of the ordinary is happening here. People are constructing links between events after the fact. To test if there was anything in it, there would have to be some proper criteria set up. I would bet any money you like that it would all fall apart under scrutiny.

But of course I can't be certain of anything. If someone could really do this though, they could debilitate prominent people they didn't like such as politicians.

I never believe in something if I don't have proof but I don't believe that my mom say so many lies. When I was young I was in my home with my mom and I saw my mom to say that she hear my sister to cry (my sister was in luna park this time) and the same time my sister hurt what is your opinion about this? (I saw this event I don't make fun).
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23-04-2017, 11:07 AM
RE: Miracles, prophetic dreams and evile eye?
(23-04-2017 09:48 AM)no_reason Wrote:  I never believe in something if I don't have proof but I don't believe that my mom say so many lies. When I was young I was in my home with my mom and I saw my mom to say that she hear my sister to cry (my sister was in luna park this time) and the same time my sister hurt what is your opinion about this? (I saw this event I don't make fun).

I think coincidences happen. How often did your mother "hear" your sister and there was nothing to it? How sure are you that it was actually the same time? I'd guess that most cases like this turn out to be people counting the hits and ignoring the misses and being VERY generous about what is a "hit".

Let's assume that your mother can reliably be aware of things happening at remote locations... what is the mechanism? A god? Aliens? Psychic powers? Elves? Ghosts? The best you could possibly hope to show is that she demonstrates an ability that is unexplained.

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23-04-2017, 11:12 AM (This post was last modified: 23-04-2017 11:16 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: Miracles, prophetic dreams and evile eye?
(23-04-2017 09:48 AM)no_reason Wrote:  
(23-04-2017 05:18 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I see, yeah.

All I can do is offer what appears to be the most likely explanation. It is well known how easily fooled people can be by confirmation bias (like with prayer). Nothing out of the ordinary is happening here. People are constructing links between events after the fact. To test if there was anything in it, there would have to be some proper criteria set up. I would bet any money you like that it would all fall apart under scrutiny.

But of course I can't be certain of anything. If someone could really do this though, they could debilitate prominent people they didn't like such as politicians.

I never believe in something if I don't have proof but I don't believe that my mom say so many lies. When I was young I was in my home with my mom and I saw my mom to say that she hear my sister to cry (my sister was in luna park this time) and the same time my sister hurt what is your opinion about this? (I saw this event I don't make fun).

It's not necessarily lies. She could sincerely think she's telling the truth about whatever it is. People can be fully convinced of something that didn't happen, or didn't quite happen as they remember it.

I can't possibly say exactly what happened in any particular event, because I have no access to it. I'm not sure what you mean by your mom hearing your sister cry. If she was nowhere near, how did she hear her? She imagined her voice? If she claims to have heard something that no one else did and she couldn't normally have possibly heard it, then there's no way to verify it (even if you were right next to her when she "heard" it). Imagining someone's voice isn't really hearing them at all, and I'm sure she would have imagined it loads of times when nothing happened. In those cases, she wouldn't tell you about it; nor would she consider this evidence against her "power". But it is. Otherwise, everyone has powers like this, because you only count coincidences and discard everything else.

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24-04-2017, 07:38 AM
RE: Miracles, prophetic dreams and evile eye?
(23-04-2017 11:12 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  
(23-04-2017 09:48 AM)no_reason Wrote:  I never believe in something if I don't have proof but I don't believe that my mom say so many lies. When I was young I was in my home with my mom and I saw my mom to say that she hear my sister to cry (my sister was in luna park this time) and the same time my sister hurt what is your opinion about this? (I saw this event I don't make fun).

It's not necessarily lies. She could sincerely think she's telling the truth about whatever it is. People can be fully convinced of something that didn't happen, or didn't quite happen as they remember it.

I can't possibly say exactly what happened in any particular event, because I have no access to it. I'm not sure what you mean by your mom hearing your sister cry. If she was nowhere near, how did she hear her? She imagined her voice? If she claims to have heard something that no one else did and she couldn't normally have possibly heard it, then there's no way to verify it (even if you were right next to her when she "heard" it). Imagining someone's voice isn't really hearing them at all, and I'm sure she would have imagined it loads of times when nothing happened. In those cases, she wouldn't tell you about it; nor would she consider this evidence against her "power". But it is. Otherwise, everyone has powers like this, because you only count coincidences and discard everything else.

She didn't imagine she hear my sister loudly
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24-04-2017, 07:53 AM
RE: Miracles, prophetic dreams and evile eye?
(24-04-2017 07:38 AM)no_reason Wrote:  
(23-04-2017 11:12 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  It's not necessarily lies. She could sincerely think she's telling the truth about whatever it is. People can be fully convinced of something that didn't happen, or didn't quite happen as they remember it.

I can't possibly say exactly what happened in any particular event, because I have no access to it. I'm not sure what you mean by your mom hearing your sister cry. If she was nowhere near, how did she hear her? She imagined her voice? If she claims to have heard something that no one else did and she couldn't normally have possibly heard it, then there's no way to verify it (even if you were right next to her when she "heard" it). Imagining someone's voice isn't really hearing them at all, and I'm sure she would have imagined it loads of times when nothing happened. In those cases, she wouldn't tell you about it; nor would she consider this evidence against her "power". But it is. Otherwise, everyone has powers like this, because you only count coincidences and discard everything else.

She didn't imagine she hear my sister loudly

Of course she did.

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24-04-2017, 08:34 AM
RE: Miracles, prophetic dreams and evile eye?
(24-04-2017 07:38 AM)no_reason Wrote:  
(23-04-2017 11:12 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  It's not necessarily lies. She could sincerely think she's telling the truth about whatever it is. People can be fully convinced of something that didn't happen, or didn't quite happen as they remember it.

I can't possibly say exactly what happened in any particular event, because I have no access to it. I'm not sure what you mean by your mom hearing your sister cry. If she was nowhere near, how did she hear her? She imagined her voice? If she claims to have heard something that no one else did and she couldn't normally have possibly heard it, then there's no way to verify it (even if you were right next to her when she "heard" it). Imagining someone's voice isn't really hearing them at all, and I'm sure she would have imagined it loads of times when nothing happened. In those cases, she wouldn't tell you about it; nor would she consider this evidence against her "power". But it is. Otherwise, everyone has powers like this, because you only count coincidences and discard everything else.

She didn't imagine she hear my sister loudly

Well, I can't possibly comment on that.

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24-04-2017, 08:50 AM
RE: Miracles, prophetic dreams and evile eye?
Yeah, the short answer is, your mom thinks she has these gifts, and happily tells people about it. She's had some coincidences happen, which to her, confirm her supposed power.

It's not that she's knowingly lying, as she'll 100% believe this to be true. The other side of that argument is, these types of "ability's" don't exist, so she literally can't be doing the things she says. It's not people poking fun, it's just us saying those things don't happen...ever, so she's wrong. That doesn't mean you have to call her out on her tales of amazing power, but as long as you understand, nobody does have or has ever had, the type of talents like your mom says she has, you'll be fine.

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24-04-2017, 10:56 AM
RE: Miracles, prophetic dreams and evile eye?
(24-04-2017 08:50 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Yeah, the short answer is, your mom thinks she has these gifts, and happily tells people about it. She's had some coincidences happen, which to her, confirm her supposed power.

It's not that she's knowingly lying, as she'll 100% believe this to be true. The other side of that argument is, these types of "ability's" don't exist, so she literally can't be doing the things she says. It's not people poking fun, it's just us saying those things don't happen...ever, so she's wrong. That doesn't mean you have to call her out on her tales of amazing power, but as long as you understand, nobody does have or has ever had, the type of talents like your mom says she has, you'll be fine.

I agree about this but my mom found many times pictures of this saint accindently I don't know if this is lie but my mom hasn't said these stories only to me but she also said in strangers
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24-04-2017, 11:50 AM
RE: Miracles, prophetic dreams and evile eye?
Here's my take on stuff like this "evil eye":

Considering not everyone is supposed to have it, a person has to be told (or suggest themselves) that they have it. And they're not going to continue the belief without support from those around them at least.

So let's say a coincidence happens. Someone says something mean about Auntie Mabel, and then they learn that she fell over and bashed her head at roughly the same time. Then someone decides that this person has the "evil eye", or that they might have it. After that, this person and everyone around them (who believes this is a real kind of thing) start focusing on any coincidence that might happen, trying to make connections. They will continue to happen, of course. It's just that all the times things don't line up with the theory will be ignored.

The person might desire this kind of attention, or else be afraid of the magic of it, and either way start manufacturing or imagining things to create more supposed coincidences. Memories are unreliable at the best of times, so it's quite easy for someone to believe they thought about so and so at just the same time something happened to them, whether the actually did or not.

So basically everyone gets caught up in the myth, and confirmation bias along with unreliable narratives (which may well not be intentional) keep the whole thing going. The fact that this thing only "exists" within the culture that believe it exists shows you that it's extremely like to be all in the mind.

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24-04-2017, 01:41 PM
RE: Miracles, prophetic dreams and evile eye?
(24-04-2017 11:50 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Here's my take on stuff like this "evil eye":

Considering not everyone is supposed to have it, a person has to be told (or suggest themselves) that they have it. And they're not going to continue the belief without support from those around them at least.

So let's say a coincidence happens. Someone says something mean about Auntie Mabel, and then they learn that she fell over and bashed her head at roughly the same time. Then someone decides that this person has the "evil eye", or that they might have it. After that, this person and everyone around them (who believes this is a real kind of thing) start focusing on any coincidence that might happen, trying to make connections. They will continue to happen, of course. It's just that all the times things don't line up with the theory will be ignored.

The person might desire this kind of attention, or else be afraid of the magic of it, and either way start manufacturing or imagining things to create more supposed coincidences. Memories are unreliable at the best of times, so it's quite easy for someone to believe they thought about so and so at just the same time something happened to them, whether the actually did or not.

So basically everyone gets caught up in the myth, and confirmation bias along with unreliable narratives (which may well not be intentional) keep the whole thing going. The fact that this thing only "exists" within the culture that believe it exists shows you that it's extremely like to be all in the mind.

This is very good explanation
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