Misc Q&A-sea_tiger
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16-05-2017, 06:23 AM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2017 06:36 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Misc Q&A-sea_tiger
(15-05-2017 02:29 PM)sea_tiger Wrote:  
(15-05-2017 02:20 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Christianity is technically polytheistic. You've got three godheads (God, Jesus, Holy Spirit)--even though they are offshoots of one god. You also have angels and demons. And Satan. That's what you call a pantheon.
They are distinct personalities but share same essence.They are one.

1. Any god that has a "personality" does not have "another personality", therefore, by definition, is not infinite. Utter nonsense.
2. "Three persons with one essence" is meaningless drivel. It can't be both. It's either one or the other. It's a dishonest use of language, (and the equivocation fallacy).

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16-05-2017, 06:35 AM
RE: Misc Q&A-sea_tiger
(15-05-2017 05:53 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  
(15-05-2017 03:37 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  The three parts never made any sense to me even when I was a believer.

I always imagined it like Voltron.




god having a son never made any fucking sense to me.

You think it makes no sense to YOU ? Tongue
Hell, it made no sense to the idiots that made it up, either.
Why do you think they had such a HUGE fight cooking up the Nicene Creed ? Why do you think the VOTE was so close, when they voted on the "filioque" language.
They settled on "eternally begotten", (which of course also makes no sense).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_...ontroversy

It's also interesting to look at the divinity of Jesus in each of the gospels.
In Mark he is "granted" divine status, (down > up).
In Matthew and Luke, he gives it up, then later takes it back, (after doing a walk about) (up > down > back up)
In John (a Gnostic), he is always divine, but adds the human nature, for a while.
(up > up+down > back up) .

Got it ? Facepalm

It's all nonsense. Either your *nature* is human* or it's not. Period. The end.

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16-05-2017, 06:48 AM
RE: Misc Q&A-sea_tiger
(16-05-2017 06:23 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(15-05-2017 02:29 PM)sea_tiger Wrote:  They are distinct personalities but share same essence.They are one.
1. Any god that has a "personality" does not have "another personality", therefore, by definition, is not infinite. Utter nonsense.
2. "Three persons with one essence" is meaningless drivel. It can't be both. It's either one or the other. It's a dishonest use of language, (and the equivocation fallacy).
This is simply another manifestation of the fact that Judaism evolved from polytheistic to monotheistic, and it and its derivatives like Christianity suffer today from the need to reconcile the modern notion that polytheism is false, heretical and ignorant, with the simple fact that the Judeo-Christian deity is a melding of three deities which are in turn a melding of many more before them.

It is so ingrained that no one ever wonders why the decalogue says "you shall have no other gods BEFORE me" rather than "you shall have no false gods". Yahweh was, like Donald Trump, concerned with primacy, which of course presumes that you have competitors to preside over as the cosmic Alpha. Primacy ceases to be a concern when you're a singleton; it simply becomes a matter of all other gods being imaginary and fabricated and unreal. The latter is how modern Christian theologians think of all proposed deities besides theirs today, but it's clearly not how the authors of the earlier books of the OT thought. Their Yahweh presided over a Heavenly Council and sparred with other celestial beings as to who inspired more loyalty (see: Book of Job).
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16-05-2017, 07:09 AM
RE: Misc Q&A-sea_tiger
(16-05-2017 12:44 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(16-05-2017 12:19 AM)Aliza Wrote:  So… taking on the role of the American, what hesitations might you have about jumping on the Lien bandwagon? Does Lien match the description of the Kennedy that the Americans are expecting? Are the excuses that the aliens provided sufficient to sway your position?

Well, the one objection that I would have would be that the book of Aliza seems to be of questionable provenance itself Wink Also I don't particularly hold with making decisions based off religious considerations. If the aliens are offering a fair deal I'll sell the planet no problem Smile But this whole business of retro-fitting their story would definitely convince me not to do business with them, they're clearly lying scum who wouldn't honour a contract.

Sure, there are some holes in my logic, but it's really just a little story to highlight the NT from the perspective of the Jewish audience, who has a deep, cultural connection to the original book and source of the prophecy. I'm also trying to show how slowly, the definition of messiah changes from one thing, to something totally different.
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16-05-2017, 07:14 AM
RE: Misc Q&A-sea_tiger
(15-05-2017 06:54 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(15-05-2017 06:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  There are three Gods in Christianity and they are one Godhead because these three Gods are one in purpose.

They are one in purpose with three distinct roles.

Or an actor (I picture Woody Allen or Don Knotts) playing three roles.
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16-05-2017, 07:18 AM
RE: Misc Q&A-sea_tiger
(16-05-2017 07:09 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Sure, there are some holes in my logic, but it's really just a little story to highlight the NT from the perspective of the Jewish audience, who has a deep, cultural connection to the original book and source of the prophecy. I'm also trying to show how slowly, the definition of messiah changes from one thing, to something totally different.

Mmm yup Smile I think you acheived your aim admirably. Perhaps a little too admirably for comfort? I mean, you pretty much started with the premise that you, the originator of the scriptures, were somewhat barmy Wink

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-05-2017, 07:35 AM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2017 07:51 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Misc Q&A-sea_tiger
(16-05-2017 06:48 AM)mordant Wrote:  
(16-05-2017 06:23 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  1. Any god that has a "personality" does not have "another personality", therefore, by definition, is not infinite. Utter nonsense.
2. "Three persons with one essence" is meaningless drivel. It can't be both. It's either one or the other. It's a dishonest use of language, (and the equivocation fallacy).
This is simply another manifestation of the fact that Judaism evolved from polytheistic to monotheistic, and it and its derivatives like Christianity suffer today from the need to reconcile the modern notion that polytheism is false, heretical and ignorant, with the simple fact that the Judeo-Christian deity is a melding of three deities which are in turn a melding of many more before them.

It is so ingrained that no one ever wonders why the decalogue says "you shall have no other gods BEFORE me" rather than "you shall have no false gods". Yahweh was, like Donald Trump, concerned with primacy, which of course presumes that you have competitors to preside over as the cosmic Alpha. Primacy ceases to be a concern when you're a singleton; it simply becomes a matter of all other gods being imaginary and fabricated and unreal. The latter is how modern Christian theologians think of all proposed deities besides theirs today, but it's clearly not how the authors of the earlier books of the OT thought. Their Yahweh presided over a Heavenly Council and sparred with other celestial beings as to who inspired more loyalty (see: Book of Job).

The Hebrews (like every culture in the ancient Near East) did recognize many gods. The "covenant" was that they would worship one (well one + his consort/wife) Yahweh and Ashera, IF Yahweh would help them in battle, (since Yahweh was the war god). That was a form of mono-lateralism. After the Exile, with the rise of the notion of "individualism" (a long and complex topic, deriving from the fact that the original main family lines/groups got disrupted during and after the Exilic period) ... with individualism came the idea that it made more sense to have only one god, (even though the Hebrew "heavenly host" still contained many divine beings), but none of them had the primacy or top status as Yahweh. When the Witch of Endor conjurs the shade of Samuel for Saul, he asks her what she sees (as only a witch can see the divine beings), she says (1 Samuel 28:3-25) she sees a "divine being, rising up". It's a very interesting topic this .. both divine beings in Hebrew culture, and why the culture moved towards monothesim, and the cultural drivers behind the move.

By the time of the 1st Century, they were firmly monotheistic, and then along came the Christians, and they CHANGED it again, as Jesus' position got changed from a typical "exalted" Apocalyptic hero, (and one of the many "sons of god") to THE son of god, and taking on divine status, eventually being EQUAL (supposedly) with the "Father", (a long process). But no matter how they worded the creeds, "the Father" always retained a certain pre-eminence, even though theologians denied there was a difference. The Father "eternally generates" the son. There remains a vestige of the primacy of the father, and then the poor Holy Spirit, ... he's sort of a non-entity. Weeping

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16-05-2017, 07:59 AM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2017 08:05 AM by Alla.)
RE: Misc Q&A-sea_tiger
Zechariah Wrote:9 ) Rejoice greatly, Fair Zion; Raise a shout, Fair Jerusalem! Lo, your king is coming to you. He is victorious, triumphant, yet humble, riding on an ass; on a donkey foaled by a she-ass.

Interpretation #1: "Messiah/Christ will be riding on an ass" is just a symbol of humility.
Yes, it can be interpreted this way. But it can be wrong interpretation. Any way how do they(tribe of Judah) know that this interpretation is right? There is only one way to know. It must be interpreted by a prophet with whom God speaks. There is no prophet with whom God speaks among Jews(tribe of Judah) today.

Interpretation #2 :" Messiah/Christ will be riding on an ass" literally. Yes, it can be interpreted this way. But it can be wrong interpretation. Any way how do Christians know what true interpretation is if there are no prophets of God among them?
But tribe of Joseph has prophets today on earth. They teach correct interpretation.


Zechariah Wrote:10 ) He shall banish chariots from Ephraim, and horses from Jerusalem; The warrior’s bow shall be banished. He shall call on the nations to surrender, and his rule shall extend from sea to sea and from ocean to land’s end.
So, in verse 9 Messiah will be riding on an ass. In verse 10 He shall banish chariots, horses, bows, nations will surrender, His rule shall extend from sea to sea,...

When we read these 2 verses do we have to assume that events in verse 9 and in verse 10 have to happen at the same time, or each verse is just a short list of events which will happen at different times?
Do Jews(tribe of Judah) know? Do they just guess the answer? Do they have a prophet among them today who can tell them? The true answer is no.

Zechariah Wrote:11 by the blood of the covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

what kind of pit is this where there is no water? Who are those prisoners who are freed from the pit by the blood of the covenant?
The answer: Messiah redeemed by His blood (the atonement) all those who are in spirit prison-hell(pit where there is no water). That is why WATER baptism is done for the dead. Paul was talking about baptism for the dead.

Jesus Messiah saved prisoners from the pit where there is no water.
This happened about 2000 years ago.

English is my second language.
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SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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16-05-2017, 08:08 AM
RE: Misc Q&A-sea_tiger
(16-05-2017 07:59 AM)Alla Wrote:  
Zechariah Wrote:9 ) Rejoice greatly, Fair Zion; Raise a shout, Fair Jerusalem! Lo, your king is coming to you. He is victorious, triumphant, yet humble, riding on an ass; on a donkey foaled by a she-ass.

Interpretation #1: "Messiah/Christ will be riding on an ass" is just a symbol of humility.
Yes, it can be interpreted this way. But it can be wrong interpretation. Any way how do they(tribe of Judah) know that this interpretation is right? There is only one way to know. It must be interpreted by a prophet with whom God speaks. There is no prophet with whom God speaks among Jews(tribe of Judah) today.

Interpretation #2 :" Messiah/Christ will be riding on an ass" literally. Yes, it can be interpreted this way. But it can be wrong interpretation. Any way how do Christians know what true interpretation is if there are no prophets of God among them?
But tribe of Joseph has prophets today on earth. They teach correct interpretation.


Zechariah Wrote:10 ) He shall banish chariots from Ephraim, and horses from Jerusalem; The warrior’s bow shall be banished. He shall call on the nations to surrender, and his rule shall extend from sea to sea and from ocean to land’s end.
So, in verse 9 Messiah will be riding on an ass. In verse 10 He shall banish chariots, horses, bows, nations will surrender, His rule shall extend from sea to sea,...

When we read these 2 verses do we have to assume that events in verse 9 and in verse 10 have to happen at the same time, or each verse is just a short list of events which will happen at different times?
Do Jews(tribe of Judah) know? Do they just guess the answer? Do they have a prophet among them today who can tell them? The true answer is no.

Zechariah Wrote:11 by the blood of the covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

what kind of pit is this where there is no water? Who are those prisoners who are freed from the pit by the blood of the covenant?
The answer: Messiah redeemed by His blood (the atonement) all those who are in spirit prison-hell(pit where there is no water). That is why WATER baptism is done for the dead. Paul was talking about baptism for the dead. This happened about 2000 years ago. Jesus Messiah saved prisoners from the pit where there is no water.

No wonder you voted for Trump. Facepalm You're as nuts as he is.
I AM a prophet. Your Jesus Messiah IS an ass, not unlike yourself.

Why do you post this shit here ?
Jesus Messiah had water in his pits. He baptized prisoners with water from the pits. I know this as I'm a junior prophet. HOC tole me so.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-05-2017, 08:15 AM
RE: Misc Q&A-sea_tiger
Robvalue Wrote:We never hear much about this Holy Spirit dude, other than he's super sensitive about insults.
This dude is our brother. He is the one who answers my questions. He warns me when I have to be warned. He comforts me when I need to be comforted. He reminds me about things I forget when they have to be remembered.

English is my second language.
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SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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