Poll: Are missionaries criminals (knowingly or ignorantly)
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Missionaries, are they criminals ?.
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19-02-2014, 04:12 AM (This post was last modified: 19-02-2014 04:50 AM by sporehux.)
Missionaries, are they criminals ?.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-19/au...ea/5270374

Considering the Bible God's endorsement/indifference to genocide, slavery, incest, rape, misogyny, violence and and and and and and......
A missionaries crime is against the culture of their victims, that could harm generations of people.
I feel sorry for this guys family, but a serial killer can only cause a limited sphere of damage, missionaries can and have been responsible for culture extinctions.

North Korean's live in Hell, they don't need to be told that's where they are all going for eternity when they die, if they don't accept the brutal torture of an imaginary white dude.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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19-02-2014, 06:16 AM (This post was last modified: 19-02-2014 06:20 AM by Wanderingcelt.)
RE: Missionaries, are they criminals ?.
Sorry I am going to be a stickler for the wording.

From my knowledge a crime or criminal is in regards to actually doing things that are a illegal, and as we have not yet formed the United Federation of Planets yet and have something like the Prime Directive yet - this is not a crime. Unfortunately.

It is certainly immoral in my eyes to make those who are ignorant feel like they are going to be punished for something they didn't know nay better, or tell them their lifestyle and tradition is moot because of a belief system. Having said that there have been some cases where I know certain religions allow a certain degree of tradition influence the way they practice that religion, but I don't think it outweighs or negates the negatives missionaries have caused.

When I was at the Christian school I went to for a short and I remember asking what right we had to tell people to change the things they had been doing for thousands of years or whatever, to our way of doing things - does it really matter?

Of course I received the whole moral argument and conversion argument which I really understand now not to be moral, in fact the opposite.

To some degree, like Jean Luc Picard, the way he twists and bends or even break the Prime Directive sometimes, I don't feel it would be the most horrible thing in the world to suggest things to other cultures. I am not talking about converting them or telling them they are wrong, but encouraging things like: better treatment of women, animals and getting a science education. Things that Holy Books aren't actually going to teach them.

In general though it is none of our business, and that guy had no business trying to do what he did.
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19-02-2014, 06:19 AM
RE: Missionaries, are they criminals ?.
In case you were like why the Star Trek references : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Directive

I know it involves interference with alien civilisations not cultures on earth (besides being fictional) but I feel it implies/represents our interferences with cultures etc in our scope of things now. I also don't necessarily think it would be a flawless concept but I think we could do do with something like this to keep our noses out of other people's choices - within reason/without getting too technical (I mean that that is a very limited statement)
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19-02-2014, 07:21 AM
RE: Missionaries, are they criminals ?.
(19-02-2014 06:16 AM)Wanderingcelt Wrote:  Sorry I am going to be a stickler for the wording.

From my knowledge a crime or criminal is in regards to actually doing things that are a illegal, and as we have not yet formed the United Federation of Planets yet and have something like the Prime Directive yet - this is not a crime. Unfortunately.

What is wrong with you? Obviously you could TELL that sporehux was NOT being literal with the word criminal. So why apologize and still chose to be a stickler on something as irrelevant as that and make yourself unpopular, if not for the sole sake of correcting someone else for your own satisfaction?

I don't get this attitude...

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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19-02-2014, 07:24 AM
RE: Missionaries, are they criminals ?.
Apparently it was a crime in this guy's chosen mission field of North Korea. I wouldn't have thought it would be in the man's best interests for his wife to be talking to media about his mission.

As for the morality of his trying to introduce this material into NK, I wouldn't rule out his contribution to NK culture being a net positive... although perhaps not for any locals he has implicated in his actions. I don't see worshipping Sky God as being fundamentally worse than the standard NK worship of Supreme Leader.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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19-02-2014, 07:29 AM
RE: Missionaries, are they criminals ?.
I do not like missionaries. I like the relief work they do. I like the aid they give. I think these are good and noble things. But the motive kills it for me. They don't give aid because its the right thing to do, they do it in order to spread their religious dogma. It is the last acceptable form of imperialism and I find it deplorable.

A year or two ago I was taking a public speaking course and we had a woman in the class who was a missionary who had been to Africa several times. She had been to Haiti after the earthquake there had devastated the country and each speech she gave was on her missionary work. Did she talk abou the cultures and the interesting customs of the peoe? No. Did she talk about the relief work and aid that was being done? No. She talked about spreading the word of god.

If you're going to give aid to other people who desperately need it fantastic. But respect that these people have their own culture and their own beliefs. When they are in trouble that is not a time to hold the aid you give them over their heads and try to get them to accept YOUR culture and YOUR beliefs.

Are they criminals? No. But they are immoral assholes.
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19-02-2014, 07:58 AM
RE: Missionaries, are they criminals ?.
In this case, it is not strictly an illegal activity as per the NK constitution. However, it is against government policy.

Mormons in Uganda is another case. That shit is getting people killed for being gay!

If you don't have time for the whole thing, watch from 30:20 and you'll get the idea.

The woman whispering into the child's ear @ 32:12 gives me a visceral reaction




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19-02-2014, 08:20 AM
RE: Missionaries, are they criminals ?.
(19-02-2014 07:29 AM)natachan Wrote:  I do not like missionaries. I like the relief work they do. I like the aid they give. I think these are good and noble things. But the motive kills it for me. They don't give aid because its the right thing to do, they do it in order to spread their religious dogma. It is the last acceptable form of imperialism and I find it deplorable.

A year or two ago I was taking a public speaking course and we had a woman in the class who was a missionary who had been to Africa several times. She had been to Haiti after the earthquake there had devastated the country and each speech she gave was on her missionary work. Did she talk abou the cultures and the interesting customs of the peoe? No. Did she talk about the relief work and aid that was being done? No. She talked about spreading the word of god.

If you're going to give aid to other people who desperately need it fantastic. But respect that these people have their own culture and their own beliefs. When they are in trouble that is not a time to hold the aid you give them over their heads and try to get them to accept YOUR culture and YOUR beliefs.

Are they criminals? No. But they are immoral assholes.

I come from a loooooong line of missionaries. As such, my elder relatives were so proud that they have a yearly picture of an even more elderly relative, circa 1850 - 1860ish. Great - we can see the young fella grow up, and it is interesting. Why, in a time when photos were rare, did he get one every year? Because his father was abroad preaching nonsense in a third-world country (without mention of any "good deeds") instead of home taking care of his family.

To me, that is an immoral asshole, indeed.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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19-02-2014, 08:20 AM
RE: Missionaries, are they criminals ?.
(19-02-2014 07:58 AM)DLJ Wrote:  In this case, it is not strictly an illegal activity as per the NK constitution. However, it is against government policy.

Mormons in Uganda is another case. That shit is getting people killed for being gay!

If you don't have time for the whole thing, watch from 30:20 and you'll get the idea.

The woman whispering into the child's ear @ 32:12 gives me a visceral reaction




Remember my spat with Mak about the evil of his beloved Mormon cult? Yeah.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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19-02-2014, 08:32 AM
RE: Missionaries, are they criminals ?.
(19-02-2014 07:58 AM)DLJ Wrote:  The woman whispering into the child's ear @ 32:12 gives me a visceral reaction

Pretty sickening,
guaranteed none of them have read the bible, they are just told its true, hold it and pray for forgiveness or burn in fire forever.

I was digging for some proof of harm info, and found this link to an old newspaper.
It never validated the claim the missionaries caused the suicide of a tribe, but its awesome to see what was happening around the time I was born :

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=13...53,4704482

Steak dinner $ 1.49 , cat in the kitchen sink
Catholic Priest stops vaccination program on fear of sterilisation conspiracy.

I could read old news papers for hours. love the Ads.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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