Missouri Police Officer shoots and kills kid with a gun in self-defense.
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24-12-2014, 01:22 PM
RE: Missouri Police Officer shoots and kills black kid with a gun.
(24-12-2014 09:38 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Aaaaarrrrggggghhhhh!

Let me just start off by saying that when you pull a gun on a law enforcement officer you have abdicated all your rights and all expectations of civil discourse, including the one of not being shot.

Does racism exist? yes
Is there distrust between the AA community and LE? yes
But
Does actively threatening the LE community a reckless idea? yes
Does a LE officer have the right to defend themselves with deadly force? yes

The St. Louis LE community and the AA community leaders better get together and iron this out before this escalates any further.

Agreed if someone pulls a gun
BUT
until it is proven via video or some equivalent compelling evidence I am going to apply the cardinal principle of US law:
I am going to presume that the black man is innocent of pulling a gun until it is proven that he pulled a gun.

I do not accept a LEOs word about a gun being pulled. I do not accept that the recovered gun is the black man's just because LEOs say so.

I want foolproof un-eraseable body AND gun cameras for all government agents.
I am saddened that I can no longer trust LEOs but that is their fault.
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24-12-2014, 01:32 PM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2014 01:41 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Missouri Police Officer shoots and kills black kid with a gun.
I think EVERY officer in this country should have body cams. Surprisingly there has been a lot of pushback on this for years from two groups....LE and defense attorneys...why? cops dont want to worry about everything they do and say being monitored, makes you on edge for the entire shift, think about you wearing a cam all day at work, with your bosses looking it over...and the defense attorneys dont want it because it would cause them to lose footing on various defense tactics..hard to argue when it is on video with audio...I think it should be mandatory and both groups win in the long run. Cops dont have to worry about being second guessed, falsely charged, and even killed by rioting idiots when if they did their job as per their training and within the constraints of the law...the video will support them. The citizens would win because cops would inevitably have to work hard at ensuring they are, and should be, acting professionally at all times.

The amount of BS lawsuits filed against cities, agencies, and officers will plummet in my opinion, for two reasons. Cops know they are being recorded, and are going to be on the best behavior, citizens cant file BS allegations in the hope of getting the arresting officer in trouble, and trying to get money.

win win

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-12-2014, 02:00 PM
RE: Missouri Police Officer shoots and kills black kid with a gun.
(24-12-2014 01:32 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I think EVERY officer in this country should have body cams.

This cop was wearing a body cam. It wasn't recording. His car had a dash cam. It wasn't recording. I sure as hell hope they find the kid's prints on the gun.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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24-12-2014, 02:23 PM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2014 02:29 PM by JDog554.)
RE: Missouri Police Officer shoots and kills black kid with a gun.
(24-12-2014 02:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(24-12-2014 01:32 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I think EVERY officer in this country should have body cams.

This cop was wearing a body cam. It wasn't recording. His car had a dash cam. It wasn't recording. I sure as hell hope they find the kid's prints on the gun.

There is Surveillance video of the kid pulling a gun on the cop, also the kid had a criminal record.

http://abc7.com/news/missouri-officer-sh...on/449188/

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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24-12-2014, 02:34 PM
RE: Missouri Police Officer shoots and kills black kid with a gun.
Wearing a body cam for your own protection is a good idea, but as an institutional requirement it's not the magical solution people like to think it would be.

Whether or not it would be theoretically nice is only a small part of the overall solution. The cost of managing the data created by continuously running cameras on a police department is more than significant.

So the question isn't "Would it be nice if everything were recorded?". Its "Are you willing to divert scarce resources into the creation of a data management department and, if so, whose budget do you want to cut or whose taxes do you want to raise to do it?"

'Murican Canadian
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24-12-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Missouri Police Officer shoots and kills black kid with a gun.
(24-12-2014 02:23 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(24-12-2014 02:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  This cop was wearing a body cam. It wasn't recording. His car had a dash cam. It wasn't recording. I sure as hell hope they find the kid's prints on the gun.

There is Surveillance video of the kid pulling a gun on the cop, also the kid had a criminal record.

http://abc7.com/news/missouri-officer-sh...on/449188/

The criminal record is irrelevant and the surveillance video is too grainy to make out what the hell he's raising. Could be his ID for all I can tell. But the cops should have access to better video processing techniques than me so they might be able to tell. Prints on the gun or bullets would settle it.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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24-12-2014, 03:09 PM
RE: Missouri Police Officer shoots and kills black kid with a gun.
(24-12-2014 03:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(24-12-2014 02:23 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  There is Surveillance video of the kid pulling a gun on the cop, also the kid had a criminal record.

http://abc7.com/news/missouri-officer-sh...on/449188/

The criminal record is irrelevant and the surveillance video is too grainy to make out what the hell he's raising. Could be his ID for all I can tell. But the cops should have access to better video processing techniques than me so they might be able to tell. Prints on the gun or bullets would settle it.

Criminal record is relevant to show why he wasn't so innocent for those that want to try and explain how he was an "innocent kid". Yeah because people hold up their ID's like guns. Facepalm Your trying way to hard. I'm sure you will get your prints though the video evidence and recovered gun is more than enough.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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24-12-2014, 03:30 PM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2014 03:33 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Missouri Police Officer shoots and kills black kid with a gun.
(24-12-2014 03:09 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Criminal record is relevant to show why he wasn't so innocent for those that want to try and explain how he was an "innocent kid".

It's irrelevant because cop didn't know that.

(24-12-2014 03:09 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Yeah because people hold up their ID's like guns. Facepalm

I present my ID just like that to the guards at the entrance to the Army base I work on every time I enter it. Do you even have ID?

(24-12-2014 03:09 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  I'm sure you will get your prints though the video evidence ....

That's gonna require some serious technological breakthroughs.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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24-12-2014, 03:39 PM
RE: Missouri Police Officer shoots and kills black kid with a gun.
(24-12-2014 03:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(24-12-2014 03:09 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Criminal record is relevant to show why he wasn't so innocent for those that want to try and explain how he was an "innocent kid".

It's irrelevant because cop didn't know that.

(24-12-2014 03:09 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Yeah because people hold up their ID's like guns. Facepalm

I present my ID just like that to the guards at the entrance to the Army base I work on every time I enter it. Do you even have ID?

(24-12-2014 03:09 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  I'm sure you will get your prints though the video evidence ....

That's gonna require some serious technological breakthroughs.

A normal citizen does not present an ID like that to a cop though, when a cop pulls you over you don't present your ID like a badge and in no way could an ID be mistaken for a gun. Technological breakthrough for what? If you think I said "through" you need to reread, I said "though" correctly, maybe I should have added a comma there.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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24-12-2014, 03:53 PM
RE: Missouri Police Officer shoots and kills black kid with a gun.
(24-12-2014 03:39 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  If you think I said "through" you need to reread, I said "though" correctly, maybe I should have added a comma there.

Oops, my bad.

All I'm saying is that it's rather suspicious that the cop was wearing a body cam and the cruiser had a dash cam and neither were turned on. If the gun and bullets come back clean with no prints on either it will become even more suspicious. It likely was a clean shoot but these irregularities are troublesome.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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