Missouri enacts 72 hour abortion waiting period
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12-09-2014, 12:06 PM
RE: Missouri enacts 72 hour abortion waiting period
(12-09-2014 12:03 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Again, I'm not telling anybody to do anything. I'm not saying it should be this way, only that this way has some merit and very little negative impact.

If you want to fight the problem, focus on the stuff that actually hurts people. Focusing on innocuous formalities isn't going to accomplish much (IMO). Focus on them closing clinics. Focus on them limiting the time-frame. A 3 day wait period though? I don't see that fight bringing you anywhere closer to the goal.

You seem to be very driven by emotion in this matter, which is good. But you getting angry with me also isn't accomplishing anything.

I'm not angry neither am I driven by emotion on this. You however seem to be very uninformed about this and are not actually thinking about how this will impact people. It would not directly effect you so you seem to think putting undue burden on people is ok. That makes you part of the problem.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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12-09-2014, 12:09 PM
RE: Missouri enacts 72 hour abortion waiting period
All I can say is, "if you say so man." Like I said, we disagree. I see your point of view and understand it. You see mine and say I'm wrong and uninformed and part of the problem. Despite how it seems on this site, I actually enjoy few things less than arguing. I think you and I both understand the other well enough (on this topic) at this point.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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12-09-2014, 12:26 PM
RE: Missouri enacts 72 hour abortion waiting period
(12-09-2014 11:34 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  This is a decision that there is no going back from, a formal 3 day wait period is...a very logical measure. It doesn't cater to the emotional, "I NEED IT DONE NOW" crowd, that's true.

It's not the state's job to protect us from making these kind of decisions. It would be different if they could demonstrate a public benefit like with gun purchases (allowing sufficient time for background checks, guard against impulsive acts of violence, etc), but an impulsive abortion is a danger to no one. Sure, it's possible she might regret it later, but taking responsibility for your own decisions is part of being an adult.

I also think "impulsive abortion" is a made up problem - something people can make a lot of noise about that never actually happens in the real world. Impulsive tattoos on the other hand...

When you also consider that Missouri only has one abortion clinic, it becomes even more of a hardship - especially for low income women who already have the least access to medical care and who can least afford to support a child (and who the same politicians would deny access to welfare and other forms of public support if they could). Women have to make two trips, one to announce their intention to have an abortion and start the clock and a second three days later to actually have the procedure. When you add the mandatory, biased and fact-challenged counseling that contains messages like "the life of each human being begins at conception and that "Abortion will terminate the life of a separate, unique, living human being" the agenda becomes clear.



Quote:The average distance a woman in the state travels for abortion care is nearly 100 miles to and from the state’s only abortion provider, according to Planned Parenthood. One in ten travel more than 300 miles for a safe and legal abortion.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/09/11...abortions#

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12-09-2014, 12:38 PM
RE: Missouri enacts 72 hour abortion waiting period
(12-09-2014 12:09 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  You see mine and say I'm wrong and uninformed and part of the problem.

Because you are on all three accounts.

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12-09-2014, 01:03 PM
RE: Missouri enacts 72 hour abortion waiting period
(12-09-2014 11:12 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(12-09-2014 11:05 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Is there a parallel with asking people to wait three days to purchase a gun?

There could be if they were also closing gun stores by legislating impossible to meet standards.

That is the key! They're doing this to clinics that provide abortion services (as well as many other female reproductive services) go through costly upgrades that even hosptals aren't forced to do!

They have no choice but to close their doors.

If they decide not to provide abortions...suddenly they get a pass, even if they do other "surgical procedures" like biopsies.

Making women travel a hundred miles or more for an abortion...yeah that does happen in some areas and some women are forced to cross state lines.

Here's the way it goes now in many states.

Woman calls a clinic saying she's pregnant and wants to terminate. They schedule her an appointment -- take a brief medical history, confirm pregnancy, some require an untrasound and try to force the woman to look and turn the volume up so they can hear a "heartbeat -- which depending on how far along the woman is, might just be her own heartbeat because the "baby" is too small to be picked up. Very early in pregnancy the best view is by entering the vagina with a wand to view the uterus (transvaginal ultrasound).

Then they tell her they can't do it then, but they have to wait and schedule her for another appointment. Some states (I think Nebraska) require she meets with a counselor who talks to her about services she might recieve if she decides to keep the baby...But it doesn't count as part of "wait period".

Finally the day arrives, the woman then comes into the clinic and in some cases is made to watch a video of an abortion being performed...

Yes, I used to wear a flack jacket and walk women passed throngs of angry protesters so they could enter the clinic safely.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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12-09-2014, 03:30 PM
RE: Missouri enacts 72 hour abortion waiting period
(12-09-2014 01:03 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  throngs of angry protesters

I find it bizarre that people have time on their hands enough to cause shit with other people's lives like this...

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-09-2014, 04:33 PM
RE: Missouri enacts 72 hour abortion waiting period
(12-09-2014 06:04 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(12-09-2014 05:49 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I actually don't have a problem with this. It is a surgical procedure and taking three days to think about it seems reasonable to me.

So should we do this for all other surgical procedures? Or just the ones where the waiting period is intended to make a person feel guilty about having it in the first place?
"Oh, you're conjoined twins and need separating immediately due to the emotional distress this is causing you? Nah, you can wait."
"You're a woman who was raped and don't want to bear the child of your rapist? Give it some time. Who cares if you can't even get therapy because all you'll think about is the unwanted embryo who will forever be a reminder of the time you got raped, should you change your mind about having an abortion?"

It's a low-risk surgical procedure that is, nonetheless, never taken lightly. I've never heard of a woman whose first thought after finding out she's pregnant is "Well, time to get an(other) abortion!"

I am allowed to not agree. I am also not ignorant regarding the issue of abortion.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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12-09-2014, 04:35 PM
RE: Missouri enacts 72 hour abortion waiting period
(12-09-2014 09:26 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(12-09-2014 05:49 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I actually don't have a problem with this. It is a surgical procedure and taking three days to think about it seems reasonable to me.

Well ma'am you seem to have a broken leg we will need to operate and insert screws. Please come back in 3 days.

An abortion in most cases is not emergency treatment.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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12-09-2014, 04:35 PM
RE: Missouri enacts 72 hour abortion waiting period
(12-09-2014 11:34 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(12-09-2014 11:28 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  I can tell you that if a woman is going in for an abortion she has already thought really long and hard about it.

Contrary to popular belief its not an easy decision to make.
I don't think it is an easy decision, nor do I think many go without thinking it through. But I also don't see a 3 days wait as a very significant hurdle, or as an insult.

This is a decision that there is no going back from, a formal 3 day wait period is...a very logical measure. It doesn't cater to the emotional, "I NEED IT DONE NOW" crowd, that's true.

How about we require black people to have a 3 day waiting period before registering to vote?

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12-09-2014, 04:39 PM
RE: Missouri enacts 72 hour abortion waiting period
(12-09-2014 10:59 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(12-09-2014 10:52 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  I do have issue with closing abortion clinics or outlawing abortion. But a 3 day wait...when I apply that wait on ANY OTHER non-urgent elective medical procedure (especially life changing ones) makes complete sense. Making it difficult to find an abortion provider is a big deal, but this three day wait can be so easily dealt with, and can honestly really help in many situations, so I don't see it as a completely negative thing. A decision like abortion should be made after consideration (even if I personally think most un-planned pregnancies should end in abortion). I think choice is important, and having a sound mind to make that choice is important. 3 days at least gives the person some time to reflect, think over and consider any life-changing event (and sometimes 3 days is not enough!) At least it's more adequate than going with decisions made on impulse. If it is not an impulse decision, which I'm sure it usually isn't, they have already thought it through, then great! Just wait 3 days and you will get what you need.

I still think whether or not a person is financially capable of having an abortion is completely a separate issue.

This has nothing to do with any of that. If it was a doctor advising you to wait that is one thing this is not that. This is part of an overall strategy that has been played out all over red states. It is trying to make getting a legal abortion impossible without extraordinary effort.

We need to also remember that this is the only surgery on demand. You can't walk into the doctor's office, clinic, or hospital and just sign in for the next available surgical suite and staff.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat

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