Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
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27-08-2015, 06:37 PM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2015 06:44 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Hmmmm... your first few posts, even your first dozen posts to me, were well-reasoned and very intelligent.
Actually when it comes to arguing your positions and statements the substance of my arguments has ALWAYS been well-reasoned and highly intelligent and more importantly correct.... but I digress lets get to the point I want to make (and hopefully not have make again for you).

You know those early posts I made, those ones you think were so well reasoned and intelligent? Do you have any idea how many times I've written out posts like that to you only for you to completely ignore them? 'Cause I do. I frequently write complete deconstructions and refutations to entire trains of your thinking and get crickets. I get crickets because half the time you don't even bother to read peoples fucking posts even when you are responding directly to them to them. Then you feign ignorance like your arguments or questions have not already been answered or refuted. You are a dishonest fuck weasel and one really good example of this game of yours is the fact that I HAVE ALREADY ANSWERED THIS VERY FUCKING QUESTION BEFORE AND HERE YOU ARE ASKING IT AGAIN AS IF YOU DON'T ALREADY HAVE THE ANSWER.

You wanna know something secret though? For all the well written and lovely prose that you have entirely ignored, for every single time you have tucked tail and ran out of a thread to avoid addressing my questions/arguments, for all the times you have pretended to be ignorant and re-asked a question having already received an answer.......... You almost never miss responding to the posts were I mock you. You are far more interested in your ego then your beliefs based on which one your rush to defend.

So the short answer, again, is that you are not worth the time necessary for the type of comments you regularly like to ignore but you do deserve the ones mocking you because those are the only ones you reliably respond to.

Oh and just to round it off: a whiny complaint about the cessation of "well reasoned and very intelligent" posts loses all bite when it comes from a source that has never once had either.Drinking Beverage

"Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye."
Matthew 7:5
[Image: tumblr_lq7puiKDFD1qevjzm-Copy.gif]


(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  What happened to your patience and attention span?
I have low patience for stupidity and you haven't written anything worth considerable attention. You have a overweening sense of self importance about the things you write that does not match reality and it's some how a fault of mine that I don't share that delusion? Hahah OK.

(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  For example, you have both spluttered that I do not know the difference between "less educated" and "atheists are smarter than everyone else"

That would be because you demonstrated it, twice now with this post, that you DON'T know the difference.

(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Please reread your quotation to me and then explain to me how I was off-base....
And here is an even better example of your dishonesty that i explained about because not only have I already explained how you were off base, why being better educated doesn't make me smarter then them, you actually quoted it in your fucking response without addressing it, and are now pretending like I have not and are re-asking the same question.

So please actually read the posts you fucking respond to and quote before you ask the same question that's been already answered. Do you need me to quote it for you in XXlarge font with bolded text in rainbow colours you stupid fuck?

(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  PS. It might be too late to try, but I don't mind informing you of the illogic of saying I deserve horrible tortures for..
Logic fail. If I think you deserve to have a porcupine dosed with gasoline shoved up your asshole and then be force feed matches until you explode like a water balloon full of Campbells Chunky Soup because you willingly and deliberately feed people delusions that you know have either been proven false or not been proven to be true that does not make my view illogical. It just means I don't like your laying ass and think you should fuck off and go die.

(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  using precious time
Your time is next to worthless because what you do with it adds no value to the world at all. You advocate stone age myth as real world fact. Your time is not just unproductive it's actually counter productive.

(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  to tell people who hate god--or at least claim to hate the concept of god
I don't hate god or the concept of god any more then a hate unicorns or the concept of unicorns for the exact same reason: neither has been proven to exist. I hate the negative effect that the primitive belief in gods has had on human history. I hate the way people like you use this false belief to manipulate people (intentionally or not) to increase their own fragile egos. I hate a lot of things about the BELIEF in a god but I don't hate the non-existent entity or the irrational concept of a god.
So shove your strawman up your gaping ass if you can slid it past your neck line.

(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  a concept they refuse to even define as ignostics
The defining characteristic of ignostic is the belief that the question of gods existence is meaningless do to the inability of anyone to provide a cogent and unambiguous definition of god and your complaint against ignostism is their inability to do the thing they think is not possible?

The whole point of Ignosticism is that no one has defined a god unambiguously you fucking idiot.Facepalm

[Image: tumblr_mgpnasgAcj1qeafupo1_500.gif]


(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Isaiah wrote:
A bunch of shit I don't care about because your work of fiction is not an accurate reflection of reality, has no authority in a debate/conversation, and doesn't answer a one of of my questions/arguments. It's also a poorly written work of fiction but that's not really relevant.

This is another good example of why you don't deserve responses that are not mockery, you constantly turn to a book of myths you KNOW your opponent knows is largely fiction, which has been demonstrated to be largely fiction, to prove your case.
You're not worthy of intellectual debate and well reasoned debating because you're not interested in those things you're interested in PREACHING and those are two wildly different animals.


Go fuck a a spear.

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27-08-2015, 06:41 PM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(27-08-2015 05:21 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(27-08-2015 04:20 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  At fucking last -- someone who knows the difference between "tenets" and "tenants"!
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28-08-2015, 09:01 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(27-08-2015 10:33 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(26-08-2015 12:46 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Chas, are you a true Christian or truly a Christian? And if you know why you are not a Christian, on what basis can you affirm the negative if no one and nothing can define the positive affirmation?

The issue is that there are so many different definitions. That's, uh, kind of the essence of your problem.

If there are "so many different definitions" of what constitutes a Christian, how come both secular dictionaries and Greek/English concordances, even those written by avid Christians (true Christians? :dodgySmile say the same thing:

"Christian - one who follows Christ"

At the risk of saying it yet again to an atheist, I call baloney.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-08-2015, 09:09 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(27-08-2015 11:06 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(27-08-2015 08:30 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I believe in some things without understanding them in their totality.

Oh, I never said anything about totality. Just a working definition would do.

You don't need to be able to label every part of a car in order to tell me what a car is. In a similar fashion, most theists don't bother with trying to avoid supplying a definition themselves, which is almost always something painfully simple, such as the prime mover concept. That's fine. It's still nonsense, but at least it's a working definition.

On the other hand, simply saying "Jesus Christ" when asked "what do you mean by 'god'?" is not helpful.What has your god done that makes it a god?

(27-08-2015 08:32 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Is your atheism solely responsible for your disdain of poetic language or are you just an even more unspiritual person than most atheists claim to be? My life has been stamped but that is a poetic metaphor for Christ's salvific and sanctifying work.

Yes, I am aware that it is a metaphor. My point, which again you seem to have missed, is that it is utterly useless and does not actually answer the question raised.

"How do you know who is and is not a True Christian?"

"Well, True Christians have heavenly citizenship."

"Wonderful. And how can you tell that they do?"

"It's just a metaphor!"

...and so on.

As for having a "disdain for poetic language", well, this is a bit of an aside, but really, you couldn't be further from the truth, and I'm a bit affronted at the suggestion.

I am a writer and a student of literature. I could spend hours expounding the merits of Poe's "The Conqueror Worm", or Tennyson's "The Lady of Shalott", or Norton Juster's absolute command of the English language in The Phantom Tollbooth. Terry Pratchett's Reaper Man reduces me to tears with a single sentence - DO YOU KNOW WHY THE PRISONER IN THE TOWER WATCHES THE FLIGHT OF BIRDS? - and I have a similar problem when listening to, oh, any song you care to choose from the score of Les Misérables.

"My passport is stamped with the blood of Christ", on the other hand, is not poetic language. It isn't even an amateur's attempt. There is nothing poetic there. There is no skill in writing involved there. It's just a rather clunky and silly hand-wave.

If you want points for poetry, try writing some poetry first.

Unbeliever, pay attention,
Q will build your comprehension,
What makes Jesus God is rather evident,
To those who read the Bible (even if they don't observe Lent),
For He has risen from the grave,
The souls of both of us to save,
Omniscience, too, He had in spades,
And raised the dead from calvacaldes.
My quip about the blood of Christ,
Was because your postings weren't nice,
If I've told you once, I've told you thrice.
Please deal with my definition,
Of that which makes the finest Christian,
It isn't any metaphor,
But which books they do give all for.
And if we Q has thus offended,
Think but this and all is mended,
"...He never went out without a book under his arm, and he often came back with two..."
Should refer not to Dawkins, but to the Bible reading that we do.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-08-2015, 09:10 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(27-08-2015 12:03 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(27-08-2015 10:33 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The issue is that there are so many different definitions. That's, uh, kind of the essence of your problem.

Yabut it doesn't count as a NTS when he does it.

See,
  • We say there are lots of types of Christians, and Q says that only some are true Christians.
  • We call him on NTS and he says it doesn't count because the Bible offers a definition of a true Christian.
  • We tell him there are multiple interpretations, and he cannot prove his is correct.
  • He commits yet another NTS that his interpretation is... wait for it... the true interpreation.
Assertion via recursion!

[Image: recursionImage.jpeg]

Robby,

If there are lots of types of Christians, as you wrote, for example:

Fat Christians
Thin Christians
Evangelical Christians
Fundamentalist Christians
Catholic Christians
Atheist Christians

...then I bet you can tell me what the similarity they share is.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-08-2015, 09:12 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(27-08-2015 02:20 PM)EppurSiMuove Wrote:  Ah, shit... It seems I've forgotten the tenets of atheism. What were they again..?
Oh wait, there are none, other than not accepting the claim that there is evidence for a god or gods (the opposite of a theist).
Even then, that does not amount to a "tenet". More like, oh idk, let's just call it... A FUCKING LITERAL DEFINITION.

If I hadn't seen Q's other posts around here before, I might give him credit enough to consider it ignorance, or sheer stupidity. Alas, given this is Q we're talking about, it's definitely just dishonesty.

Did you read the OP? Because where I'm asking for honest feedback, you are giving disingenuous guff. I hope you don't mind saying so, but you are acting like the stereotype most Christians hold regarding atheists. Be a part of the solution and the dialogue.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-08-2015, 09:14 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(27-08-2015 06:37 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Hmmmm... your first few posts, even your first dozen posts to me, were well-reasoned and very intelligent.
Actually when it comes to arguing your positions and statements the substance of my arguments has ALWAYS been well-reasoned and highly intelligent and more importantly correct.... but I digress lets get to the point I want to make (and hopefully not have make again for you).

You know those early posts I made, those ones you think were so well reasoned and intelligent? Do you have any idea how many times I've written out posts like that to you only for you to completely ignore them? 'Cause I do. I frequently write complete deconstructions and refutations to entire trains of your thinking and get crickets. I get crickets because half the time you don't even bother to read peoples fucking posts even when you are responding directly to them to them. Then you feign ignorance like your arguments or questions have not already been answered or refuted. You are a dishonest fuck weasel and one really good example of this game of yours is the fact that I HAVE ALREADY ANSWERED THIS VERY FUCKING QUESTION BEFORE AND HERE YOU ARE ASKING IT AGAIN AS IF YOU DON'T ALREADY HAVE THE ANSWER.

You wanna know something secret though? For all the well written and lovely prose that you have entirely ignored, for every single time you have tucked tail and ran out of a thread to avoid addressing my questions/arguments, for all the times you have pretended to be ignorant and re-asked a question having already received an answer.......... You almost never miss responding to the posts were I mock you. You are far more interested in your ego then your beliefs based on which one your rush to defend.

So the short answer, again, is that you are not worth the time necessary for the type of comments you regularly like to ignore but you do deserve the ones mocking you because those are the only ones you reliably respond to.

Oh and just to round it off: a whiny complaint about the cessation of "well reasoned and very intelligent" posts loses all bite when it comes from a source that has never once had either.Drinking Beverage

"Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye."
Matthew 7:5
[Image: tumblr_lq7puiKDFD1qevjzm-Copy.gif]


(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  What happened to your patience and attention span?
I have low patience for stupidity and you haven't written anything worth considerable attention. You have a overweening sense of self importance about the things you write that does not match reality and it's some how a fault of mine that I don't share that delusion? Hahah OK.

(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  For example, you have both spluttered that I do not know the difference between "less educated" and "atheists are smarter than everyone else"

That would be because you demonstrated it, twice now with this post, that you DON'T know the difference.

(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Please reread your quotation to me and then explain to me how I was off-base....
And here is an even better example of your dishonesty that i explained about because not only have I already explained how you were off base, why being better educated doesn't make me smarter then them, you actually quoted it in your fucking response without addressing it, and are now pretending like I have not and are re-asking the same question.

So please actually read the posts you fucking respond to and quote before you ask the same question that's been already answered. Do you need me to quote it for you in XXlarge font with bolded text in rainbow colours you stupid fuck?

(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  PS. It might be too late to try, but I don't mind informing you of the illogic of saying I deserve horrible tortures for..
Logic fail. If I think you deserve to have a porcupine dosed with gasoline shoved up your asshole and then be force feed matches until you explode like a water balloon full of Campbells Chunky Soup because you willingly and deliberately feed people delusions that you know have either been proven false or not been proven to be true that does not make my view illogical. It just means I don't like your laying ass and think you should fuck off and go die.

(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  using precious time
Your time is next to worthless because what you do with it adds no value to the world at all. You advocate stone age myth as real world fact. Your time is not just unproductive it's actually counter productive.

(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  to tell people who hate god--or at least claim to hate the concept of god
I don't hate god or the concept of god any more then a hate unicorns or the concept of unicorns for the exact same reason: neither has been proven to exist. I hate the negative effect that the primitive belief in gods has had on human history. I hate the way people like you use this false belief to manipulate people (intentionally or not) to increase their own fragile egos. I hate a lot of things about the BELIEF in a god but I don't hate the non-existent entity or the irrational concept of a god.
So shove your strawman up your gaping ass if you can slid it past your neck line.

(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  a concept they refuse to even define as ignostics
The defining characteristic of ignostic is the belief that the question of gods existence is meaningless do to the inability of anyone to provide a cogent and unambiguous definition of god and your complaint against ignostism is their inability to do the thing they think is not possible?

The whole point of Ignosticism is that no one has defined a god unambiguously you fucking idiot.Facepalm

[Image: tumblr_mgpnasgAcj1qeafupo1_500.gif]


(27-08-2015 08:47 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Isaiah wrote:
A bunch of shit I don't care about because your work of fiction is not an accurate reflection of reality, has no authority in a debate/conversation, and doesn't answer a one of of my questions/arguments. It's also a poorly written work of fiction but that's not really relevant.

This is another good example of why you don't deserve responses that are not mockery, you constantly turn to a book of myths you KNOW your opponent knows is largely fiction, which has been demonstrated to be largely fiction, to prove your case.
You're not worthy of intellectual debate and well reasoned debating because you're not interested in those things you're interested in PREACHING and those are two wildly different animals.


Go fuck a a spear.

In sum, and I did read the entirety of your post before responding,

The Q likes to repeat questions--it has nothing to do with The Q's ignorance, real or feigned--when atheists duck questions, shift the goal posts, and curse and mock him.

Think of it as proactively preparing you to answer questions from a higher authority.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-08-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
All,

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tenet

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-08-2015, 09:21 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(28-08-2015 09:09 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Please deal with my definition,
Of that which makes the finest Christian,
It isn't any metaphor,
But which books they do give all for.

That physically hurt me to read. Never do that again - or, at least, never do it without taking some time to establish basic meter. Points for effort, though.

Regardless, your "definition" is rather the problem. "Those who truly follow Christ" is rather useless when there are literally dozens of sects all claiming to be the only true followers, and all have various quote-mined passages to support them.

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28-08-2015, 09:32 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(28-08-2015 09:21 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 09:09 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Please deal with my definition,
Of that which makes the finest Christian,
It isn't any metaphor,
But which books they do give all for.

That physically hurt me to read. Never do that again - or, at least, never do it without taking some time to establish basic meter. Points for effort, though.

Regardless, your "definition" is rather the problem. "Those who truly follow Christ" is rather useless when there are literally dozens of sects all claiming to be the only true followers, and all have various quote-mined passages to support them.

Yabut, when he has those special feels of righteousness, they're real, because he's the one having them.

Unlike all those other people. What do they know about their own feelings, after all?

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