Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
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09-09-2015, 12:14 PM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(04-09-2015 03:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 01:28 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I didn't say "truly" follow Christ. The dictionary and biblical definition agree: follower of Christ.

The problem isn't the working definition. The problem is that atheists like to claim that everyone who says they follow Christ, is doing what they say.

It is not for us to determine who is and who isn't actually a follower of Christ.
You seem to think it is up to you.

Quote:I bet if we held atheists to similar standards on a variety of areas, we would find that some, not all, are hypocrites. Do you agree?

Variety of areas? There is only one - the lack of belief in any gods.

It is up to everyone to judge. When someone says, "I will shoot you if you don't do X," you have to decide if they are "truly" threatening you or not. I'll ask you: what percentage of prisoners who "convert to God" are sincere? What percentage are seeking to shorten their prison term by saying something they are really not sincerely interested in doing?

And again, when you say, "the lack of belief in any gods" I would expect you to define terms. If god is an absolute authority being, certainly atheists to a person look to themselves first, and others second if at all. Do you disagree?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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09-09-2015, 12:16 PM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
Quote:Your. Book. Is. A. Work. Of. Fiction. I. Do. Not. Care. What. It. Says.

Whiskey,

Even apocryphal documents say Jesus is God and Lord. There are 9 NT writers, and a further then 1st century non-Christian historians who comment on early Christianity. Either produce documents contemporary to the events denying the events or admit that:

Quote:Your. Book. Is. A. Work. Of. Fiction. I. Do. Not. Care. What. It. Says.

...is your argument from silence.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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09-09-2015, 12:20 PM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(09-09-2015 12:16 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
Quote:Your. Book. Is. A. Work. Of. Fiction. I. Do. Not. Care. What. It. Says.

Whiskey,

Even apocryphal documents say Jesus is God and Lord. There are 9 NT writers, and a further then 1st century non-Christian historians who comment on early Christianity. Either produce documents contemporary to the events denying the events or admit that:

Quote:Your. Book. Is. A. Work. Of. Fiction. I. Do. Not. Care. What. It. Says.

...is your argument from silence.

Here ya go Q.
Read and learn something for a change. The gospels are NOT biography.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...spels.html

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-09-2015, 09:54 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(09-09-2015 12:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:16 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Whiskey,

Even apocryphal documents say Jesus is God and Lord. There are 9 NT writers, and a further then 1st century non-Christian historians who comment on early Christianity. Either produce documents contemporary to the events denying the events or admit that:


...is your argument from silence.

Here ya go Q.
Read and learn something for a change. The gospels are NOT biography.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...spels.html

Thank you for sharing the website posting quotations demonstrating that mainline scholars feel the gospels are not authentic biographies but rather, panegyrics with subjective (inflated) details. That is what we would expect from persons with an anti-supernatural bias. The actual theory involved is found in two parts:

1. Miracles "can't" occur.

2. Greco-Roman contemporary literature was panegyric in nature so the Jews were following suit.

The issues should be obvious to you. Of course, you resent my making Bible statements like "false prophets were to be executed under Mosaic Law" which would make the Jewish writers of the NT subject to FAR more extreme scrutiny by their peers than, say, a Roman writer extolling a Caesar.

PS. If you have a question based on what I just wrote, I will address it if you write "Jesus Christ" in your question.

Thanks.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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11-09-2015, 10:20 AM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2015 10:29 AM by Grasshopper.)
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(11-09-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Here ya go Q.
Read and learn something for a change. The gospels are NOT biography.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...spels.html

Thank you for sharing the website posting quotations demonstrating that mainline scholars feel the gospels are not authentic biographies but rather, panegyrics with subjective (inflated) details. That is what we would expect from persons with an anti-supernatural bias. The actual theory involved is found in two parts:

1. Miracles "can't" occur.

2. Greco-Roman contemporary literature was panegyric in nature so the Jews were following suit.

The issues should be obvious to you. Of course, you resent my making Bible statements like "false prophets were to be executed under Mosaic Law" which would make the Jewish writers of the NT subject to FAR more extreme scrutiny by their peers than, say, a Roman writer extolling a Caesar.

PS. If you have a question based on what I just wrote, I will address it if you write "Jesus Christ" in your question.

Thanks.

Yabut, "Mosaic Law" was pretty much irrelevant in first-century Palestine. The Jews were a subject people. Roman law was much more important -- especially after 70 AD, which is when the Gospels were probably written. This whole "The Jews would never have let them get away with it" argument doesn't work. The Jews had nowhere near the power the Gospels portray them as having -- and by the time the Gospels were written, they were scattered to the four winds anyway.
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14-09-2015, 06:09 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(11-09-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  That is what we would expect from persons with an anti-supernatural bias.

Holy shit! The last time I saw that phrase mashed out from a keyboard was from Alpha Male! I almost forgot all about this!

I suppose the next time I cross the street, I should take some serious time to consider whether or not that car driving toward me is a real car or a ghost car. I'd hate to be biased in my decisions and just stand there wasting time for a ghost car!

If only there were some way to test this, and remove any unreasonable bias...
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14-09-2015, 06:25 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(14-09-2015 06:09 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(11-09-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  That is what we would expect from persons with an anti-supernatural bias.

Holy shit! The last time I saw that phrase mashed out from a keyboard was from Alpha Male! I almost forgot all about this!

I suppose the next time I cross the street, I should take some serious time to consider whether or not that car driving toward me is a real car or a ghost car. I'd hate to be biased in my decisions and just stand there wasting time for a ghost car!

If only there were some way to test this, and remove any unreasonable bias...

Other than getting hit by the car I assume?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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14-09-2015, 07:13 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(14-09-2015 06:09 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(11-09-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  That is what we would expect from persons with an anti-supernatural bias.

Holy shit! The last time I saw that phrase mashed out from a keyboard was from Alpha Male! I almost forgot all about this!

I suppose the next time I cross the street, I should take some serious time to consider whether or not that car driving toward me is a real car or a ghost car. I'd hate to be biased in my decisions and just stand there wasting time for a ghost car!

If only there were some way to test this, and remove any unreasonable bias...

LOL! Yeah, the point you make will go completely over his head. How could you have a bias if you consider supernatural and natural explanations equally?

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Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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14-09-2015, 08:27 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(11-09-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  1. Miracles "can't" occur.

2. Greco-Roman contemporary literature was panegyric in nature so the Jews were following suit.

The issues should be obvious to you. Of course, you resent my making Bible statements like "false prophets were to be executed under Mosaic Law" which would make the Jewish writers of the NT subject to FAR more extreme scrutiny by their peers than, say, a Roman writer extolling a Caesar.

PS. If you have a question based on what I just wrote, I will address it if you write "Jesus Christ" in your question.

Thanks.

There is no such thing as people in 2015 writing "Bible statements". It crap, and you know it. I have no questions to ask of someone with no Biblical education, such as you. You are incompetent to discuss the field, as you have repeatedly demonstrated. You for got to reference that "false prohets" were routinely and systematically executed, or that writers OUTSIDE Israel would be subject to any such threat. You have no proof that "Jewish writers" wrote the NT, and in fact we know at least John was NOT a Jewish writer. You really have your head so far up your fundie ass you will never see daylight.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-09-2015, 11:12 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(11-09-2015 10:20 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(11-09-2015 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Thank you for sharing the website posting quotations demonstrating that mainline scholars feel the gospels are not authentic biographies but rather, panegyrics with subjective (inflated) details. That is what we would expect from persons with an anti-supernatural bias. The actual theory involved is found in two parts:

1. Miracles "can't" occur.

2. Greco-Roman contemporary literature was panegyric in nature so the Jews were following suit.

The issues should be obvious to you. Of course, you resent my making Bible statements like "false prophets were to be executed under Mosaic Law" which would make the Jewish writers of the NT subject to FAR more extreme scrutiny by their peers than, say, a Roman writer extolling a Caesar.

PS. If you have a question based on what I just wrote, I will address it if you write "Jesus Christ" in your question.

Thanks.

Yabut, "Mosaic Law" was pretty much irrelevant in first-century Palestine. The Jews were a subject people. Roman law was much more important -- especially after 70 AD, which is when the Gospels were probably written. This whole "The Jews would never have let them get away with it" argument doesn't work. The Jews had nowhere near the power the Gospels portray them as having -- and by the time the Gospels were written, they were scattered to the four winds anyway.

Jesus speaks of the Roman law in the Sermon on the Mount. But there were tens of thousands of pilgrims in town when Jesus was crucified precisely because of the Mosaic Law. The entire NT addresses the Law as do many of the characters and incidents within.

The Romans had your taxes, but God held souls--that's how the Jewish people lived.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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