Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
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26-08-2015, 01:18 PM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(26-08-2015 01:09 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(26-08-2015 01:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  We don't believe any of the gods so far defined by theists due to lack of evidence and/or logical contradictions.

It is not up to us to define your claims. You really don't understand how this works. Facepalm

So, you are unable to define God or unwilling to define God, which?

It is not up to me to define your claims, you simpleton.

Quote:PS. I'm happy to help you in your ignorance and/or unwillingness, and will keep attempting to help us both come up with working definitions. Because that's how "this" works. Facepalm

No, it isn't. You have presented claims without evidence. It is up to you to clarify your claims and provide evidence. That's how it works.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-08-2015, 02:12 PM (This post was last modified: 26-08-2015 02:17 PM by Gilgamesh.)
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(26-08-2015 12:50 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You disagree that the difference between a follower of X and a non-follower of X is that the follower is following the words/teaching/interpretations/whatever as best they can?
Sure, because "as best you can" can easily be "not at all" or "completely contradictory to" since Jesus cannot verify which interpretations are correct, and which are not.

You very well may be doing the complete opposite in your life of what Jesus would do, and you cannot know that you are. If this is the case, you can't be called a follower of christ, thus not a true christian.
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26-08-2015, 05:53 PM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(26-08-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  **
It should really tell you something that this is the only reply you have ever made to me that was not wildly inaccurate or dishonest. It should.....ah but it wont.

(26-08-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  An atheist actually admitted he thinks he's smarter than all the people who believe in God ...
Hahaha..no hahah. What I said was that if you fail to make a single convert out of people with a good grasp on logic, who are able to evaluate claims rationally, and don't fall prey to your logically inconsistent and fallacious arguments and then you decide to direct your nonsense at people who clearly can't (or they wouldn't buy your shit) are we supposed to be impressed? The fact that I have had the requisite training and education in this field and they have not does not make me SMARTER then them, it doesn't even mean I have a higher I.Q then them.. it just means what I said.....that they are comparatively less educated on the subject then we here are. Do you think a chemical engineer with 3 degrees is stupid because he doesn't know how to fly a jet? Derp der derp.
I'm actually quite sure that many of them are quite intelligent and if I sat them down and gave them an extensive course in logic and the rational examination of your claims you would start hemorrhaging people left right and center and would be forced to polish of that box of crayons I mentioned.

Couple follow up bits of irony just for the lulz:
You seem to think that a lack of education = stupidity. If you think them being less educated on a topic can be interpreted as them being "less smart" then it seems you have a MUCH lower opinion of your flock then I do. Careful!...your con is slipping.
Your, continued, failure at reading comprehension actually helps prove the belief you asserted I was making but wasn't. This is actually extremely hilarious. Way to undercut yourself stupid. I LOL.

Honestly by all means please DO mention me in your little collective circle jerk: It will be the only mention of anything rational they get all night.Drinking Beverage

(26-08-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I guess that's why so many people replied for so many pages to a couple of posts about an informal logical fallacy I commented on...
You also deserve to be corn holed by a cactus fired from an orbital battle platform. Don't mean it's gonna happen, just means you deserve it. Exact same thing with you deserving to be mocked and just mocked. Lots of people might not mock you, but it's still what you deserve.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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26-08-2015, 06:01 PM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(26-08-2015 05:53 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(26-08-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  **
It should really tell you something that this is the only reply you have ever made to me that was not wildly inaccurate or dishonest. It should.....ah but it wont.

(26-08-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  An atheist actually admitted he thinks he's smarter than all the people who believe in God ...
Hahaha..no hahah. What I said was that if you fail to make a single convert out of people with a good grasp on logic, who are able to evaluate claims rationally, and don't fall prey to your logically inconsistent and fallacious arguments and then you decide to direct your nonsense at people who clearly can't (or they wouldn't buy your shit) are we supposed to be impressed? The fact that I have had the requisite training and education in this field and they have not does not make me SMARTER then them, it doesn't even mean I have a higher I.Q then them.. it just means what I said.....that they are comparatively less educated on the subject then we here are. Do you think a chemical engineer with 3 degrees is stupid because he doesn't know how to fly a jet? Derp der derp.
I'm actually quite sure that many of them are quite intelligent and if I sat them down and gave them an extensive course in logic and the rational examination of your claims you would start hemorrhaging people left right and center and would be forced to polish of that box of crayons I mentioned.

Couple follow up bits of irony just for the lulz:
You seem to think that a lack of education = stupidity. If you think them being less educated on a topic can be interpreted as them being "less smart" then it seems you have a MUCH lower opinion of your flock then I do. Careful!...your con is slipping.
Your, continued, failure at reading comprehension actually helps prove the belief you asserted I was making but wasn't. This is actually extremely hilarious. Way to undercut yourself stupid. I LOL.

Honestly by all means please DO mention me in your little collective circle jerk: It will be the only mention of anything rational they get all night.Drinking Beverage

(26-08-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I guess that's why so many people replied for so many pages to a couple of posts about an informal logical fallacy I commented on...
You also deserve to be corn holed by a cactus fired from an orbital battle platform. Don't mean it's gonna happen, just means you deserve it. Exact same thing with you deserving to be mocked and just mocked. Lots of people might not mock you, but it's still what you deserve.

Goddam Whiskey I missed you. Never leave us again.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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26-08-2015, 06:59 PM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(26-08-2015 06:01 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Goddam Whiskey I missed you. Never leave us again.
I didn't go anywhere, I just had to reload!
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27-08-2015, 08:30 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(26-08-2015 01:11 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(26-08-2015 01:07 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  That must be convenient... except on Judgment Day (Jesus's day, not The Terminator's day).

Ah, yes. The old "I don't have a response to that so here's a red herring about the coming apocalypse so that no one comments about how I completely failed to respond to the actual point raised" tactic. Rather like Grandpappy's rifle for theistic posters here; old, well-loved, and utterly useless.

I'm sorry I failed to apply my response specifically to your schmurples. I believe in some things without understanding them in their totality. Saying we must have every nuance of definition drawn out before we commit is a cop out. The fact is if I could trust you more, I might even believe in schmurples if you told me a little about them because belief, like our interpretation of data, is in part based on the reliability of the reporting entities.

Even Jesus does not ask that you trust Him once you have cleared all possible doubt, but rather, all reasonable doubt.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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27-08-2015, 08:32 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(26-08-2015 01:11 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(26-08-2015 01:08 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Mine is stamped with the blood of Christ.

Ah. Easily identifiable, then.

So where is it?

Is your atheism solely responsible for your disdain of poetic language or are you just an even more unspiritual person than most atheists claim to be? My life has been stamped but that is a poetic metaphor for Christ's salvific and sanctifying work.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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27-08-2015, 08:34 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(26-08-2015 01:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-08-2015 12:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  So, you are saying Christian atheists are more so TRUE CHRISTIANS than I?

Thanks for affirming my ability to create valid definitions by creating one for yourself to use here at TTA! "A Christian atheist is more the true Christian than Q." GOOD JOB!

Except I didn't say that. Why do you constantly try to put words in people's mouths?
It's dishonest - stop doing it.

You are stupid, disingenuous, or both.

Actually, I'm pointing out the irony each time you claim I'm unable to define what a Christian--even as you define it in the same post. Things I hate:

1. Hateful people
2. Irony
3. Lists

Dodgy

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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27-08-2015, 08:38 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(26-08-2015 02:12 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(26-08-2015 12:50 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You disagree that the difference between a follower of X and a non-follower of X is that the follower is following the words/teaching/interpretations/whatever as best they can?
Sure, because "as best you can" can easily be "not at all" or "completely contradictory to" since Jesus cannot verify which interpretations are correct, and which are not.

You very well may be doing the complete opposite in your life of what Jesus would do, and you cannot know that you are. If this is the case, you can't be called a follower of christ, thus not a true christian.

You have just defined my opportunity to call someone else not a true Christian. And before you call NTS on me, first recognize that you just did exactly that. Paraphrasing what you wrote: "If you do X, you are not a true Christian."

However, I'm sorry I failed to point out that in this case, I am judging the intentionality of the individual, not the outcome. If you are unable to discern that when someone says "I'm a born again Christian and I treat others the way I want to be treated!" and afterward kills and rapes people that they are both not following Jesus and need mental help, please don't serve as a juror--ever.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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27-08-2015, 08:47 AM
RE: Misuse of the No True Scotsman Fallacy
(26-08-2015 05:53 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(26-08-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  **
It should really tell you something that this is the only reply you have ever made to me that was not wildly inaccurate or dishonest. It should.....ah but it wont.

(26-08-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  An atheist actually admitted he thinks he's smarter than all the people who believe in God ...
Hahaha..no hahah. What I said was that if you fail to make a single convert out of people with a good grasp on logic, who are able to evaluate claims rationally, and don't fall prey to your logically inconsistent and fallacious arguments and then you decide to direct your nonsense at people who clearly can't (or they wouldn't buy your shit) are we supposed to be impressed? The fact that I have had the requisite training and education in this field and they have not does not make me SMARTER then them, it doesn't even mean I have a higher I.Q then them.. it just means what I said.....that they are comparatively less educated on the subject then we here are. Do you think a chemical engineer with 3 degrees is stupid because he doesn't know how to fly a jet? Derp der derp.
I'm actually quite sure that many of them are quite intelligent and if I sat them down and gave them an extensive course in logic and the rational examination of your claims you would start hemorrhaging people left right and center and would be forced to polish of that box of crayons I mentioned.

Couple follow up bits of irony just for the lulz:
You seem to think that a lack of education = stupidity. If you think them being less educated on a topic can be interpreted as them being "less smart" then it seems you have a MUCH lower opinion of your flock then I do. Careful!...your con is slipping.
Your, continued, failure at reading comprehension actually helps prove the belief you asserted I was making but wasn't. This is actually extremely hilarious. Way to undercut yourself stupid. I LOL.

Honestly by all means please DO mention me in your little collective circle jerk: It will be the only mention of anything rational they get all night.Drinking Beverage

(26-08-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I guess that's why so many people replied for so many pages to a couple of posts about an informal logical fallacy I commented on...
You also deserve to be corn holed by a cactus fired from an orbital battle platform. Don't mean it's gonna happen, just means you deserve it. Exact same thing with you deserving to be mocked and just mocked. Lots of people might not mock you, but it's still what you deserve.

Hmmmm... your first few posts, even your first dozen posts to me, were well-reasoned and very intelligent. What happened to your patience and attention span?

For example, you have both spluttered that I do not know the difference between "less educated" and "atheists are smarter than everyone else" immediately followed by some nasty comments. May I remind you of your actual quote? It went thusly:

Quote:Of course you would get more people willing to listen to your inane bullshit away from the place where everyone one knows your bullshit is bullshit, why it's bullshit, and can successfully argue against your bullshit and demonstrate that it is in fact bullshit.
Are we supposed to be impressed when you go sit at the kiddy table of this subject and get the, competitively, uneducated people to play with what few crayons you haven't eaten yet?

Please reread your quotation to me and then explain to me how I was off-base when I suggested that you are arrogant and consider yourself smarter than all those hundreds, even thousands of people, I've witnessed to offline.

PS. It might be too late to try, but I don't mind informing you of the illogic of saying I deserve horrible tortures for using precious time to tell people who hate god--or at least claim to hate the concept of god--a concept they refuse to even define as ignostics--makes no sense. Isaiah wrote:

All day long I have held out my hands to an obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations--

But he and I "went the distance" for the sake of love, for the sake of knowledge, for the sake of the prize... for others... for you.

I do NOT wish God's mercy upon you, Mr. Whiskey. I wish God's grace upon you!

Mercy is not being punished as we deserve.

Grace is receiving a gift when we deserve punishment.

I hope, I pray, I urge you--don't take the grace of God in vain.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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