Moderates at the barricades?
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07-09-2010, 06:17 AM
 
Moderates at the barricades?
As I write this, muslim protesters are at the barricades once again, concerned about the burning of their sacred text, the Koran (or whatever variant of the spelling is current). I can't say what fraction of these are moderates, as opposed to fanatics, but surely not all of them are fanatics.

In another thread - I've lost track of it now - someone said that moderates (christian or muslim) have been ignored by the media in favor of more radical believers on both sides. This might be true, but if moderate muslims took to the streets to protest the use of suicide bombers in Israel, I'm pretty confident that the media in the USA would pick up on that story. Or if moderate christians participated in mass demonstrations the next time an abortion clinic is fire-bombed or an abortion doctor is murdered, I'll bet that the media wouldn't ignore that protest.

It seems that marching in the streets over the burning of a sacred book or a cartoon is not only possible, but it's virtually guaranteed, whereas terrorist attacks don't seem that much of a catalyst for protest by moderates. I'm just not buying the argument that it's some sort of media conspiracy against moderates. Rather, it's the volume and visibility of the protests that makes the difference. Moderates may issue statements to the press, but that just doesn't garner the kind of attention that a loud demonstration with banners and slogans can draw. If the radical believers are getting all the attention with their demonstrations, shouldn't moderates be doing the same to repudiate and counter-balance the violence and bigotry their fanatical brethern espouse?
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07-09-2010, 06:21 AM
RE: Moderates at the barricades?
I saw last night that General Patreus was imploring this church not to do it because if was just going to make things worse and more dangerous for US troops in Afghanistan. And, I think what this church is planning to do is absolutely appalling.

However, you make a very, very interesting point about moderate Muslims here. Where were they when members of their religion were threatening peoples lives?

Your post is a fantastic illustration of the point several of us have made about the dangers of the moderates and the "fence-sitters" on this board.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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07-09-2010, 06:37 AM
 
RE: Moderates at the barricades?
(07-09-2010 06:17 AM)2buckchuck Wrote:  If the radical believers are getting all the attention with their demonstrations, shouldn't moderates be doing the same to repudiate and counter-balance the violence and bigotry their fanatical brethern espouse?

One would think so...

So, then, why aren't the moderates protesting? The answer seems plain to me.

They're at home, watching this on the news and reading Twilight, because religion doesn't consume their lives. That's what makes them moderates.

They don't care enough about their religion to defend it in the manner that you describe. Work and play and sex and children take up the time that they could spend protesting.

This lack of an all-encompassing interest is what sets them apart from the fundamentalists and the extremists. they're not out there protesting because they don't want the attention that protesting gives. They don't have anything to say, either for or against their religion (or anyone else's for that matter.)
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07-09-2010, 04:32 PM
RE: Moderates at the barricades?
The flip side of this, of course, is why are all the Christians and Jews who claim to be appalled at this sitting this out? Shouldn't they also be out condemning what these idiots are doing?

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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07-09-2010, 08:10 PM
RE: Moderates at the barricades?
I agree with BnW--where are they?
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07-09-2010, 11:24 PM
RE: Moderates at the barricades?
If I burned a science book would it destroy science? If I burned "The Night Before Christmas" would people stop celebrating Christmas? Where the &%$# is sanity?
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08-09-2010, 03:29 AM
 
RE: Moderates at the barricades?
(07-09-2010 04:32 PM)BnW Wrote:  The flip side of this, of course, is why are all the Christians and Jews who claim to be appalled at this sitting this out? Shouldn't they also be out condemning what these idiots are doing?
No argument from me about that! If moderates of all monotheistic religions aren't speaking out to protest the actions of their fanatical brethern, then they're implicitly approving those actions. When pushed to make a decision by extremists, moderates typically say little or nothing, but watch from the sidelines and thereby offer their implicit approval. "No comment" is actually a decision!
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08-09-2010, 12:15 PM
RE: Moderates at the barricades?
A few things.

Are people saying that no scientist would protest a book burning if the books were on evolution?

What is so reprehensible about suicide attacks? Why should people be denouncing them? Should the North Vietnamese have protested suicide bombers? Should the Japanese protested Kamikaze and Kaiten pilots? Jews for Samson? Anti-Tzarists for Narodnaya Volya? Tamils for the Tamil Tigers? Chechens for the Moscow Theatre incident? I don't understand what it is about the tactic of suicide attacks that is so reprehensible. Can someone explain it to me? And I mean that tactic, not terrorism. Two different things.

Do American moderates get a pass for not protesting American war crimes or are they in the same boat?

Quote:Or if moderate christians participated in mass demonstrations the next time an abortion clinic is fire-bombed or an abortion doctor is murdered, I'll bet that the media wouldn't ignore that protest.

I spoke to a minister with the United Church of Canada about this (she's not only a minister but has advised on national policy for several decades). There have in fact been numerous public denouncements of this sort of activity by various Christian groups.

Quote:It seems that marching in the streets over the burning of a sacred book or a cartoon is not only possible, but it's virtually guaranteed, whereas terrorist attacks don't seem that much of a catalyst for protest by moderates.

It's kind of a wonky comparison. One is protest over your entire group being attacked, the other is protest about people other than yourself that are associated with your group that have attacked other people. Ie, one affects you directly while the other affects you indirectly. In terms of protesting direct attacks, I do believe that one or two Americans protested being bombed.

Quote:The flip side of this, of course, is why are all the Christians and Jews who claim to be appalled at this sitting this out? Shouldn't they also be out condemning what these idiots are doing?

Actually:
Quote:Larry Reimer, a pastor at the United Church of Gainesville, said Jones has only about 30 people worshipping with him. "He represents virtually no one."

Reimer called the plan dangerous, hurtful and harmful.

"It’s disrespectful and has nothing to do with God, who tells us to love one another," Reimer said.

He planned to deliver a 3,000-signature petition to Jones on Friday asking him not to burn the Muslim holy book.

In addition, Christian, Jewish and Muslim religious leaders say they will read passages from the Qur'an at services this weekend.
-SOURCE: CBC.ca

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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10-09-2010, 05:15 PM
 
RE: Moderates at the barricades?
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-se...at-burnies

I think this piece does a wonderful job of explaining the impracticality of moderates going out and condemning radicals every time they pull off a new circus act. It only gives them more attention anyways.
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10-09-2010, 05:29 PM
RE: Moderates at the barricades?
were are the "liberal" christians and muslims protesting against their brothers? thats what I want to know. I want to know where the other extreme of religious fanaticism is and what its doing to protest the other side. Or are they just sitting with their arms crossed as all this unfolds?
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