Modern Miracles
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23-12-2016, 11:35 AM
Modern Miracles
I can't help but feel that, if Gawd even is performing miracles anymore (since there are some Christians who believe and are taught that business stopped with the disciples), they're getting increasingly small and, might I say, even cruel when considered thoroughly.

Why doesn't God feed thousands with food from the sky anymore? How come he normally just resorts to healing one Christian instead of the millions of other people who are diseased or inflicted?

One of the reasons I've been avoiding facebook a lot is because nearly all of my friends there are Christians. And I'll avoid going into too much detail again, but the basics of the post I saw were this:

1.) A tree was making someone's allergies act up. Their parent, a preacher, went out to the tree and rebuked it in God's name.
2.) The next day, the tree had shriveled up and hasn't produced a single thing since.
3.) Goddidit.
4.) GIVE YOUR HEARTS TO JESUS, PLEASE.

It did cause some recent-deconvert panic in me, yes, but even if it were Gawd that did it... Why doesn't he do anything bigger than this?
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23-12-2016, 12:32 PM
RE: Modern Miracles
(23-12-2016 11:35 AM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  I can't help but feel that, if Gawd even is performing miracles anymore (since there are some Christians who believe and are taught that business stopped with the disciples), they're getting increasingly small and, might I say, even cruel when considered thoroughly.

Why doesn't God feed thousands with food from the sky anymore? How come he normally just resorts to healing one Christian instead of the millions of other people who are diseased or inflicted?

One of the reasons I've been avoiding facebook a lot is because nearly all of my friends there are Christians. And I'll avoid going into too much detail again, but the basics of the post I saw were this:

1.) A tree was making someone's allergies act up. Their parent, a preacher, went out to the tree and rebuked it in God's name.
2.) The next day, the tree had shriveled up and hasn't produced a single thing since.
3.) Goddidit.
4.) GIVE YOUR HEARTS TO JESUS, PLEASE.

It did cause some recent-deconvert panic in me, yes, but even if it were Gawd that did it... Why doesn't he do anything bigger than this?

You bring up the story of mana from heaven in Exodus, that's a good story that shows that the OT god is certainly interventionist, didn't consider anyone's choice violated and took action to directly and miraculously feed people.

Jesus does this in the New Testament as well.

And then there's this reality, without the biblical apologism:

[Image: Hungry-child.png]

The only way they get fed is when humans do it.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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23-12-2016, 01:24 PM
RE: Modern Miracles
(23-12-2016 11:35 AM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  I can't help but feel that, if Gawd even is performing miracles anymore (since there are some Christians who believe and are taught that business stopped with the disciples), they're getting increasingly small and, might I say, even cruel when considered thoroughly.

Why doesn't God feed thousands with food from the sky anymore? How come he normally just resorts to healing one Christian instead of the millions of other people who are diseased or inflicted?

One of the reasons I've been avoiding facebook a lot is because nearly all of my friends there are Christians. And I'll avoid going into too much detail again, but the basics of the post I saw were this:

1.) A tree was making someone's allergies act up. Their parent, a preacher, went out to the tree and rebuked it in God's name.
2.) The next day, the tree had shriveled up and hasn't produced a single thing since.
3.) Goddidit.
4.) GIVE YOUR HEARTS TO JESUS, PLEASE.

It did cause some recent-deconvert panic in me, yes, but even if it were Gawd that did it... Why doesn't he do anything bigger than this?

Did a trivial post that had absolutely no verification or empirical evidence really shake your non-faith? When someone who lost their limb gets a new one overnight, and they prayed for it that night, I'll think about maybe wondering if there is a supernatural being.

Until then, it's all hokum.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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23-12-2016, 01:28 PM
RE: Modern Miracles
(23-12-2016 11:35 AM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  4.) GIVE YOUR HEARTS TO JESUS, PLEASE.

Give your soul to Jesus.





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23-12-2016, 01:37 PM
RE: Modern Miracles
(23-12-2016 11:35 AM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  1.) A tree was making someone's allergies act up. Their parent, a preacher, went out to the tree and rebuked it in God's name.
2.) The next day, the tree had shriveled up and hasn't produced a single thing since.
3.) Goddidit.
4.) GIVE YOUR HEARTS TO JESUS, PLEASE.

Why would anybody believe anything like this actually happened? Even a second's thought about the implications would show it to be complete bullshit. Why is critical thinking such an unused skill?

First, it's a clear rip-off of the "fig tree" story from the bible. Second, if somebody is allergic to a tree they live near they either get some allergy medication, cut down the tree, or move. You don't "rebuke" a tree -- it isn't like the tree could understand a rebuke or was even doing anything maliciously. Third, why the fuck didn't they pray for the allergies to be relived instead of taking out a single tree? Was that the only tree this person encounters that they are allergic to? Fourth, how would they know that it was the rebuke that killed the tree? Post hoc ergo propter hoc is not a basis for rational belief. Last, how do they know that a god was involved and the tree just didn't like being yelled at? That's at least as credible an idea. Fucking hell, if this is what is on FB I'm glad I've never used it.

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23-12-2016, 01:52 PM
RE: Modern Miracles
(23-12-2016 11:35 AM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  1.) A tree was making someone's allergies act up. Their parent, a preacher, went out to the tree and rebuked it in God's name.
2.) The next day, the tree had shriveled up and hasn't produced a single thing since.
3.) Goddidit.
4.) GIVE YOUR HEARTS TO JESUS, PLEASE.

Let's see, God knows everything including in the future. God created trees that he knew full well would aggravate people's allergies. He was okay with this when he created them. Parents and preacher then rebuke this one tree in God's name (not even a calm prayer, but rebuke sounds angry, as though they are angry (maybe without realizing it) with God's decision that allergy-aggravating trees are acceptable). So this causes God to change his mind? Hmm, why? Nothing has changed from God's perspective except a few people aren't happy about it - which he knew would be the case when he created that tree.

Sound like lying for Jesus to me. Dodgy

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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23-12-2016, 02:02 PM (This post was last modified: 23-12-2016 02:31 PM by docskeptic.)
RE: Modern Miracles
Diddlyboop,
It sounds like you're a recent deconvert. It's OK to have moments of doubt and panic when you hear stories that make religion sound all too real. I had them myself. It gets better with time. Hang in there.

I second all the objections listed above. The power of God has decreased proportionately with our increase in knowledge and has nowhere to go but further down.

Regards,

Doc
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23-12-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Modern Miracles
(23-12-2016 11:35 AM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  I can't help but feel that, if Gawd even is performing miracles anymore (since there are some Christians who believe and are taught that business stopped with the disciples), they're getting increasingly small and, might I say, even cruel when considered thoroughly.

Why doesn't God feed thousands with food from the sky anymore? How come he normally just resorts to healing one Christian instead of the millions of other people who are diseased or inflicted?

One of the reasons I've been avoiding facebook a lot is because nearly all of my friends there are Christians. And I'll avoid going into too much detail again, but the basics of the post I saw were this:

1.) A tree was making someone's allergies act up. Their parent, a preacher, went out to the tree and rebuked it in God's name.
2.) The next day, the tree had shriveled up and hasn't produced a single thing since.
3.) Goddidit.
4.) GIVE YOUR HEARTS TO JESUS, PLEASE.

It did cause some recent-deconvert panic in me, yes, but even if it were Gawd that did it... Why doesn't he do anything bigger than this?

That preacher can come over to my house and rebuke Alder, Cottonwood and Pine trees, about 8 different kinds of grasses, dust mite dung, horses, cats and dogs, goose feathers and three different kinds of mold....they can come over and rebuke all those things because that's what I've been scientifically tested for and am allergic to. I'd like to see them try it. I'd like to see all the mold in Oregon shrivel up in gods name. Laugh out load

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Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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23-12-2016, 02:16 PM
RE: Modern Miracles
(23-12-2016 01:37 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(23-12-2016 11:35 AM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  1.) A tree was making someone's allergies act up. Their parent, a preacher, went out to the tree and rebuked it in God's name.
2.) The next day, the tree had shriveled up and hasn't produced a single thing since.
3.) Goddidit.
4.) GIVE YOUR HEARTS TO JESUS, PLEASE.

Why would anybody believe anything like this actually happened? Even a second's thought about the implications would show it to be complete bullshit. Why is critical thinking such an unused skill?

First, it's a clear rip-off of the "fig tree" story from the bible. Second, if somebody is allergic to a tree they live near they either get some allergy medication, cut down the tree, or move. You don't "rebuke" a tree -- it isn't like the tree could understand a rebuke or was even doing anything maliciously. Third, why the fuck didn't they pray for the allergies to be relived instead of taking out a single tree? Was that the only tree this person encounters that they are allergic to? Fourth, how would they know that it was the rebuke that killed the tree? Post hoc ergo propter hoc is not a basis for rational belief. Last, how do they know that a god was involved and the tree just didn't like being yelled at? That's at least as credible an idea. Fucking hell, if this is what is on FB I'm glad I've never used it.

Oh gosh, you've got no idea. It can get worse than that but... yeah. At least, that's how some of my friends are. I love them, but -- eep...
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23-12-2016, 02:51 PM
RE: Modern Miracles
Miracle stories get more and more lame all the time, have you seen the one where the lady said she got just the right amount of milk out of the carton? Like she needed one cup and it was exactly one cup and she's all like "God is looking out for me!"

Yeah he's busy allowing people to have the right amount of ingredients for baking stuff but those kids dying of cancer with Christian parents praying every night to just take them instead...well it's just so much work these days, can't the medical scientists and doctors just take care of it? I mean Jeez, it's the holidays too, like give the guy a break.

The only answer for this kind of selfish tunnel vision is that God works in mysterious ways but where does he draw the line and why is it all so arbitrary and random? I've heard many miracle stories and heard many believers say God doesn't grant miracles ever, at all, he totally stopped after Jesus died. These theists need to get on the same page already, does he grant miracles, small or large, ever? Or not? You can't have it both ways so it makes sense in any context.

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