Molestation
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15-10-2016, 09:21 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 06:26 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(14-10-2016 07:13 PM)Fireball Wrote:  Before this goes too much further, I move that this goes to the PI&S. Agreed? I've no problem with seeing this (except for the part where it shouldn't even have to be talked about).

I thought carefully about where to post this. Since it is currently relevant to the conversation about: "Why don't women come out about molestation sooner", and it is a hot topic in politics, I decided to put it here.

Hardly anyone has PTSD from molestation, unlike rape. I am ready to move it anytime someone with a strong adverse reaction asks me to, but I find it very important that people who will read political posts, but not PI&S posts, get exposure to this thread because it provides a better understanding of the current political situation.

Hiding this thread in the PI&S section just perpetuates the taboo of speaking out loud about molestation.

Yes, it's uncomfortable. It IS very uncomfortable. I don't think that it should be hidden because of that. Quite the opposite, it is meant to wake some people up to reality.

Molestation happens to the vast majority of little girls and grown women alike, and it needs to stop.

You can't stop something no one wants to talk about. Then everything will stay the same, and women will continue to be silent and endure this shit.

"Copping a feel" is not justified because "boys will be boys". And women need to be confident enough to shout it from the roof tops. Shouting about it in the political section of a message board at a time when the topic is politically relevant is just a teeny tiny step towards that.

The Trump molestation tape is what will make him lose the election for sure. Same as what happened to Cosby. It's not just because of the women coming forward, it's because the rest of us remember similar situations. Women will stop Trump. And this thread is about why that is so.

Fair enough. You do have a point with posting this here. Thumbsup
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15-10-2016, 09:23 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  3 minutes of being sexually harassed (including being followed) in a ten hour period is still way too much. You are also assuming they didn't edit much more out.

I have seen and read about this video, and no they didn't edit more out, the collected what they got from the video. Also when is saying hello and you are beautiful sexual harassment. I have seen men as well get hello and you look handsome, but nobody would call it sexual harassment. The problem with calling most of that three minute video sexual harassment is that it eventually leads to larger problems(i.e hugh mungus) and if there is a law saying that if a woman feels she is sexually harassed by a man he could get in trouble, then it will cause problems. For example, black men will be hurt a lot if such a law took place, because as you saw, it was mostly black men in that video. It also makes men afraid to talk to woman, and we know the problems that could cause.

(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  When a man makes comments like that to a woman *especially a woman they don't even know* it becomes very scary because your mind starts to race to "What else are they going to do?" You worry about possibly being further harassed, being followed, inappropriately touched, or worse.

Well if that is the case, said woman might have a paranoia, which in it self is a problem. I am a male, and men are way more likely to be murdered than women. Does that mean every time I walk down the street and someone is behind me I should be afraid I will be killed? No, because there is no reason to assume he/she is trying to kill me until they are about to attack. Which is another problem, you can't assume when a man says hello, you look nice today he is going to all of a sudden attack you. I mean even in the video you notice only one man out of all of them decided to follow her and the rest just said something either normal or really rude and uncalled for.

(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Why? Because when men cat call it is sexually charged and therefore, becomes an extremely scary situation for the woman.

Well there are a lot of moments where a man is sexually charged. For example if I buy a woman some flowers or compliment her hair, I am doing it in hopes to be with her(though sometimes to be friendly). However, what is important isn't what they say(unless it is a threat like I will rape you) but what they do. I mean you could be walking down the street and a man just groups you. One depends on context, if the context is like damn nice ass, it is really rude and uncalled for, but if he(or maybe she) says that you ignore them and they leave you alone that isn't harassment. Now if a man(woman) is following you and doing it, than yes it is harassment and it should be stopped and the person should be reported. But just because a man wants to compliment you or even say damn, doesn't mean he is out to rape you.

(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  You add the fact that most women have already been touched and followed and harassed on various other occasions and then maybe you can understand the fear when a random man tells you you are pretty while ogling your body.

Well most men have been attacked, does that mean a woman can only understand what it feels like to be afraid of being killed unless she too is attacked with a knife? No. Now I need to make this clear, I am on your side in that catcalling is something that is rude and uncalled for and that nobody should just grab somebody(especially in their private areas), but the way the video potrays it does nothing but harm. If you walked around a city for 10 hours and only got a 3 minute video with only 2 instances of rude and inappropriate acting men, you can't turn use that as a way to there for say that women should fear when a stranger compliments them. After all most couples who are together were once strangers. So if someone where to take this video and decide to make a law where if a man makes a woman uncomfortable he would get in trouble. To bring up a story from long a go, I was once on the school bus sitting and looking at the window staring at a bird. A woman who was sitting across from my seat thought I was staring at her and not the bird. Now if it wasn't for the fact that people were watching me watch the bird, I might have gotten in trouble. Now imagine today with a even stricter law on sexual harassment and the same thing happened, just me staring at a bird and a woman thinks I am looking at her tits and this time no one is around. I am in trouble for people thinking I am looking at hooters while I was looking at a pidgeon.

I agree that groping is a problem, but the method the video is trying to use won't help.

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15-10-2016, 09:41 AM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2016 09:57 AM by jennybee.)
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 09:23 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  3 minutes of being sexually harassed (including being followed) in a ten hour period is still way too much. You are also assuming they didn't edit much more out.

I have seen and read about this video, and no they didn't edit more out, the collected what they got from the video. Also when is saying hello and you are beautiful sexual harassment. I have seen men as well get hello and you look handsome, but nobody would call it sexual harassment. The problem with calling most of that three minute video sexual harassment is that it eventually leads to larger problems(i.e hugh mungus) and if there is a law saying that if a woman feels she is sexually harassed by a man he could get in trouble, then it will cause problems. For example, black men will be hurt a lot if such a law took place, because as you saw, it was mostly black men in that video. It also makes men afraid to talk to woman, and we know the problems that could cause.

(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  When a man makes comments like that to a woman *especially a woman they don't even know* it becomes very scary because your mind starts to race to "What else are they going to do?" You worry about possibly being further harassed, being followed, inappropriately touched, or worse.

Well if that is the case, said woman might have a paranoia, which in it self is a problem. I am a male, and men are way more likely to be murdered than women. Does that mean every time I walk down the street and someone is behind me I should be afraid I will be killed? No, because there is no reason to assume he/she is trying to kill me until they are about to attack. Which is another problem, you can't assume when a man says hello, you look nice today he is going to all of a sudden attack you. I mean even in the video you notice only one man out of all of them decided to follow her and the rest just said something either normal or really rude and uncalled for.

(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Why? Because when men cat call it is sexually charged and therefore, becomes an extremely scary situation for the woman.

Well there are a lot of moments where a man is sexually charged. For example if I buy a woman some flowers or compliment her hair, I am doing it in hopes to be with her(though sometimes to be friendly). However, what is important isn't what they say(unless it is a threat like I will rape you) but what they do. I mean you could be walking down the street and a man just groups you. One depends on context, if the context is like damn nice ass, it is really rude and uncalled for, but if he(or maybe she) says that you ignore them and they leave you alone that isn't harassment. Now if a man(woman) is following you and doing it, than yes it is harassment and it should be stopped and the person should be reported. But just because a man wants to compliment you or even say damn, doesn't mean he is out to rape you.

(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  You add the fact that most women have already been touched and followed and harassed on various other occasions and then maybe you can understand the fear when a random man tells you you are pretty while ogling your body.

Well most men have been attacked, does that mean a woman can only understand what it feels like to be afraid of being killed unless she too is attacked with a knife? No. Now I need to make this clear, I am on your side in that catcalling is something that is rude and uncalled for and that nobody should just grab somebody(especially in their private areas), but the way the video potrays it does nothing but harm. If you walked around a city for 10 hours and only got a 3 minute video with only 2 instances of rude and inappropriate acting men, you can't turn use that as a way to there for say that women should fear when a stranger compliments them. After all most couples who are together were once strangers. So if someone where to take this video and decide to make a law where if a man makes a woman uncomfortable he would get in trouble. To bring up a story from long a go, I was once on the school bus sitting and looking at the window staring at a bird. A woman who was sitting across from my seat thought I was staring at her and not the bird. Now if it wasn't for the fact that people were watching me watch the bird, I might have gotten in trouble. Now imagine today with a even stricter law on sexual harassment and the same thing happened, just me staring at a bird and a woman thinks I am looking at her tits and this time no one is around. I am in trouble for people thinking I am looking at hooters while I was looking at a pidgeon.

I agree that groping is a problem, but the method the video is trying to use won't help.

Again, whether they edited it or not, three minutes of sexual harassment (including being followed) in a ten hour period is still too much.

Sexual harassment is defined as follows: unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature. (US EEO Commission)

If a random man tells a woman walking by on the street that she is beautiful, chances are he’s not simply saying that “to be nice.” He is doing so because he is sexually interested in her. And societally speaking, most women would not view his comments as his simply being nice. Most women would view his comments as a sexual advance. And they would view it as a scary situation. Here’s a tip on talking to women--if most tell you doing such and such makes them scared and extremely uncomfortable, instead of trying to justify it--don’t do it.

It’s not a paranoia if it keeps happening. Paranoia is something that occurs when you have no basis or reason to fear. That is not the case with most women’s experiences. You are focusing on three minutes in a ten hour period. Do you not understand that this happens day in and day out, three minutes or more every single day. It’s not paranoia if it keeps happening and if some cat calls wind up with a man touching and/or following you.

You can’t understand the difference between asking a woman that you know for a date and a random man calling out to a woman telling her she’s beautiful while she walks alone on the street? Seriously?

I think the video is helpful because it brings awareness to men about what women go through, how it makes us feel, and that we want it to stop.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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15-10-2016, 09:48 AM
RE: Molestation
You keep equivocating between men being attacked and women. Please stop. There is no valid comparison. Possibly it is due to your physical stature, but women are going to lose most any one on one encounter, barring some serious training.
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15-10-2016, 10:09 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 09:23 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  3 minutes of being sexually harassed (including being followed) in a ten hour period is still way too much. You are also assuming they didn't edit much more out.

I have seen and read about this video, and no they didn't edit more out, the collected what they got from the video. Also when is saying hello and you are beautiful sexual harassment. I have seen men as well get hello and you look handsome, but nobody would call it sexual harassment. The problem with calling most of that three minute video sexual harassment is that it eventually leads to larger problems(i.e hugh mungus) and if there is a law saying that if a woman feels she is sexually harassed by a man he could get in trouble, then it will cause problems. For example, black men will be hurt a lot if such a law took place, because as you saw, it was mostly black men in that video. It also makes men afraid to talk to woman, and we know the problems that could cause.

(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  When a man makes comments like that to a woman *especially a woman they don't even know* it becomes very scary because your mind starts to race to "What else are they going to do?" You worry about possibly being further harassed, being followed, inappropriately touched, or worse.

Well if that is the case, said woman might have a paranoia, which in it self is a problem. I am a male, and men are way more likely to be murdered than women. Does that mean every time I walk down the street and someone is behind me I should be afraid I will be killed? No, because there is no reason to assume he/she is trying to kill me until they are about to attack. Which is another problem, you can't assume when a man says hello, you look nice today he is going to all of a sudden attack you. I mean even in the video you notice only one man out of all of them decided to follow her and the rest just said something either normal or really rude and uncalled for.

(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Why? Because when men cat call it is sexually charged and therefore, becomes an extremely scary situation for the woman.

Well there are a lot of moments where a man is sexually charged. For example if I buy a woman some flowers or compliment her hair, I am doing it in hopes to be with her(though sometimes to be friendly). However, what is important isn't what they say(unless it is a threat like I will rape you) but what they do. I mean you could be walking down the street and a man just groups you. One depends on context, if the context is like damn nice ass, it is really rude and uncalled for, but if he(or maybe she) says that you ignore them and they leave you alone that isn't harassment. Now if a man(woman) is following you and doing it, than yes it is harassment and it should be stopped and the person should be reported. But just because a man wants to compliment you or even say damn, doesn't mean he is out to rape you.

(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  You add the fact that most women have already been touched and followed and harassed on various other occasions and then maybe you can understand the fear when a random man tells you you are pretty while ogling your body.

Well most men have been attacked, does that mean a woman can only understand what it feels like to be afraid of being killed unless she too is attacked with a knife? No. Now I need to make this clear, I am on your side in that catcalling is something that is rude and uncalled for and that nobody should just grab somebody(especially in their private areas), but the way the video potrays it does nothing but harm. If you walked around a city for 10 hours and only got a 3 minute video with only 2 instances of rude and inappropriate acting men, you can't turn use that as a way to there for say that women should fear when a stranger compliments them. After all most couples who are together were once strangers. So if someone where to take this video and decide to make a law where if a man makes a woman uncomfortable he would get in trouble. To bring up a story from long a go, I was once on the school bus sitting and looking at the window staring at a bird. A woman who was sitting across from my seat thought I was staring at her and not the bird. Now if it wasn't for the fact that people were watching me watch the bird, I might have gotten in trouble. Now imagine today with a even stricter law on sexual harassment and the same thing happened, just me staring at a bird and a woman thinks I am looking at her tits and this time no one is around. I am in trouble for people thinking I am looking at hooters while I was looking at a pidgeon.

I agree that groping is a problem, but the method the video is trying to use won't help.

Put yourself in the woman's place. I mean, as man. Assuming that you are straight, how would you feel if those men did that to you? How would you feel about it once some of them have groped you?

Women don't welcome sexual advances from strangers while minding their own business walking down the street, same as you would not appreciate it from men if that is not your choice of partner. It's the same feeling - unwanted and scary.

It's walking a gauntlet.

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15-10-2016, 10:11 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 09:41 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Again, whether they edited it or not, three minutes of sexual harassment (including being followed) in a ten hour period is still too much. Sexual harassment is defined as follows: Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature. Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex.” If a random man tells a woman walking by on the street that she is beautiful, chances are he’s not simply saying that “to be nice.” He is doing so because he is interested in her. And societally speaking, most women would not view his comments as his simply being nice. Most women would view his comments as a sexual advance. And they would view it as a scary situation. Here’s a tip on talking to women--if most tell you doing such and such makes them scared and extremely uncomfortable, instead of trying to justify it--don’t do it.

If that is the case couldn't a hello also be considered harrasment. That would mean if I said hello to a woman, and she doesn't like it, that can be considered sexual harassment. Again I refer to this





Would this be considered sexual harrasment? By that definition it could be, and that is where the problem lies with the video.


Also you act as if a man can be nice and make a sexual advancement. Just because he is trying to have sex with you doesn't mean he is going to rape you or even harass you. After all we are a sexually reproducing species, sex is the #1 reason men and woman interact, just like any other animal.

There is also a difference in how it is done as well. If I kept following you and called you beautiful, than yes that is harrassment. If I say hello beautiful, you either ignore me or say you are not interested, than that is no harrassment, as I understood no means no.

Also I mentioned that catcalling is rude, I ain't justifying it, I am just saying there are better ways to handle this issue that the video doesn't help.

(15-10-2016 09:41 AM)jennybee Wrote:  It’s not a paranoia if it keeps happening. Paranoia is something that occurs when you have no basis or reason to fear. That is not the case with most women’s experiences. You are focusing on three minutes in a ten hour period. Do you not understand that this happens day in and day out, three minutes or more every single day. It’s not paranoia if it keeps happening and if some cat calls wind up with a man touching and/or following you.

No the paranoia isn't if people keeping saying you look great, but think that they are going to sexually assault you or harass you because of them. It is thinking every man who pays you a compliment is going to sexually assault you and/or touch you. This isn't the case, and having such a mind set isn't going to solve anything. There are better ways to stop this.

(15-10-2016 09:41 AM)jennybee Wrote:  You can’t understand the difference between asking a woman that you know for a date and a random man calling out to a woman telling her she’s beautiful while she walks alone on the street? Seriously?

As I said, most couples started out as strangers. So at some point the man was random and the woman was random for most people. Saying good morning beautiful and leaving the woman alone when she isn't interested. Again what method would you use to stop men from doing that, jail them or fine them?

(15-10-2016 09:41 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I think the video is helpful because it brings awareness to men about what women go through, how it makes us feel, and that we want it to stop.

The video has a flawed methodology and helps no one





https://medium.com/message/that-catcalli....t1pkm24sb

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15-10-2016, 10:14 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 09:23 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  3 minutes of being sexually harassed (including being followed) in a ten hour period is still way too much. You are also assuming they didn't edit much more out.

I have seen and read about this video, and no they didn't edit more out, the collected what they got from the video. Also when is saying hello and you are beautiful sexual harassment. I have seen men as well get hello and you look handsome, but nobody would call it sexual harassment. The problem with calling most of that three minute video sexual harassment is that it eventually leads to larger problems(i.e hugh mungus) and if there is a law saying that if a woman feels she is sexually harassed by a man he could get in trouble, then it will cause problems. For example, black men will be hurt a lot if such a law took place, because as you saw, it was mostly black men in that video. It also makes men afraid to talk to woman, and we know the problems that could cause.

(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  When a man makes comments like that to a woman *especially a woman they don't even know* it becomes very scary because your mind starts to race to "What else are they going to do?" You worry about possibly being further harassed, being followed, inappropriately touched, or worse.

Well if that is the case, said woman might have a paranoia, which in it self is a problem. I am a male, and men are way more likely to be murdered than women. Does that mean every time I walk down the street and someone is behind me I should be afraid I will be killed? No, because there is no reason to assume he/she is trying to kill me until they are about to attack. Which is another problem, you can't assume when a man says hello, you look nice today he is going to all of a sudden attack you. I mean even in the video you notice only one man out of all of them decided to follow her and the rest just said something either normal or really rude and uncalled for.

(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Why? Because when men cat call it is sexually charged and therefore, becomes an extremely scary situation for the woman.

Well there are a lot of moments where a man is sexually charged. For example if I buy a woman some flowers or compliment her hair, I am doing it in hopes to be with her(though sometimes to be friendly). However, what is important isn't what they say(unless it is a threat like I will rape you) but what they do. I mean you could be walking down the street and a man just groups you. One depends on context, if the context is like damn nice ass, it is really rude and uncalled for, but if he(or maybe she) says that you ignore them and they leave you alone that isn't harassment. Now if a man(woman) is following you and doing it, than yes it is harassment and it should be stopped and the person should be reported. But just because a man wants to compliment you or even say damn, doesn't mean he is out to rape you.

(15-10-2016 08:49 AM)jennybee Wrote:  You add the fact that most women have already been touched and followed and harassed on various other occasions and then maybe you can understand the fear when a random man tells you you are pretty while ogling your body.

Well most men have been attacked, does that mean a woman can only understand what it feels like to be afraid of being killed unless she too is attacked with a knife? No. Now I need to make this clear, I am on your side in that catcalling is something that is rude and uncalled for and that nobody should just grab somebody(especially in their private areas), but the way the video potrays it does nothing but harm. If you walked around a city for 10 hours and only got a 3 minute video with only 2 instances of rude and inappropriate acting men, you can't turn use that as a way to there for say that women should fear when a stranger compliments them. After all most couples who are together were once strangers. So if someone where to take this video and decide to make a law where if a man makes a woman uncomfortable he would get in trouble. To bring up a story from long a go, I was once on the school bus sitting and looking at the window staring at a bird. A woman who was sitting across from my seat thought I was staring at her and not the bird. Now if it wasn't for the fact that people were watching me watch the bird, I might have gotten in trouble. Now imagine today with a even stricter law on sexual harassment and the same thing happened, just me staring at a bird and a woman thinks I am looking at her tits and this time no one is around. I am in trouble for people thinking I am looking at hooters while I was looking at a pidgeon.

I agree that groping is a problem, but the method the video is trying to use won't help.

I would like to add though, that you're not the first man I have heard raise these points. I think having a course in high school (or even jr high) that helps raise awareness and explain why it is scary for women and what is appropriate/not appropriate in terms of making women feel safe/ not threatened when they are out in society would be a really good idea.

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15-10-2016, 10:17 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 10:09 AM)Dom Wrote:  Put yourself in the woman's place. I mean, as man. Assuming that you are straight, how would you feel if those men did that to you? How would you feel about it once some of them have groped you?

If it were me? If some man said hello beautiful to me I would take that as a compliment gay man or not. And if a dude groped me I would say "if you are going to grab my ass at least take me out to dinner first"

I mean that would be what I would do Big Grin, but don't worry I won't there for say that women should do the same, because that would be uncouth for me to say.

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15-10-2016, 10:21 AM
RE: Molestation
Zeke, I know you are smart, and I know you are educated in biology.

Yet you completely fail to observe obvious signals between humans. A woman who walks briskly, keeps her head down and avoids eye contact is not receptive or appreciative of advances. She is trying to be invisible.

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15-10-2016, 10:22 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 10:17 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 10:09 AM)Dom Wrote:  Put yourself in the woman's place. I mean, as man. Assuming that you are straight, how would you feel if those men did that to you? How would you feel about it once some of them have groped you?

If it were me? If some man said hello beautiful to me I would take that as a compliment gay man or not. And if a dude groped me I would say "if you are going to grab my ass at least take me out to dinner first"

I mean that would be what I would do Big Grin, but don't worry I won't there for say that women should do the same, because that would be uncouth for me to say.

Unbelievable. What do you think would happen if that was the woman's reaction?

Holy cow, Zeke! Think!

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