Molestation
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15-10-2016, 10:24 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 10:11 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 09:41 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Again, whether they edited it or not, three minutes of sexual harassment (including being followed) in a ten hour period is still too much. Sexual harassment is defined as follows: Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature. Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex.” If a random man tells a woman walking by on the street that she is beautiful, chances are he’s not simply saying that “to be nice.” He is doing so because he is interested in her. And societally speaking, most women would not view his comments as his simply being nice. Most women would view his comments as a sexual advance. And they would view it as a scary situation. Here’s a tip on talking to women--if most tell you doing such and such makes them scared and extremely uncomfortable, instead of trying to justify it--don’t do it.

If that is the case couldn't a hello also be considered harrasment. That would mean if I said hello to a woman, and she doesn't like it, that can be considered sexual harassment. Again I refer to this





Would this be considered sexual harrasment? By that definition it could be, and that is where the problem lies with the video.


Also you act as if a man can be nice and make a sexual advancement. Just because he is trying to have sex with you doesn't mean he is going to rape you or even harass you. After all we are a sexually reproducing species, sex is the #1 reason men and woman interact, just like any other animal.

There is also a difference in how it is done as well. If I kept following you and called you beautiful, than yes that is harrassment. If I say hello beautiful, you either ignore me or say you are not interested, than that is no harrassment, as I understood no means no.

Also I mentioned that catcalling is rude, I ain't justifying it, I am just saying there are better ways to handle this issue that the video doesn't help.

(15-10-2016 09:41 AM)jennybee Wrote:  It’s not a paranoia if it keeps happening. Paranoia is something that occurs when you have no basis or reason to fear. That is not the case with most women’s experiences. You are focusing on three minutes in a ten hour period. Do you not understand that this happens day in and day out, three minutes or more every single day. It’s not paranoia if it keeps happening and if some cat calls wind up with a man touching and/or following you.

No the paranoia isn't if people keeping saying you look great, but think that they are going to sexually assault you or harass you because of them. It is thinking every man who pays you a compliment is going to sexually assault you and/or touch you. This isn't the case, and having such a mind set isn't going to solve anything. There are better ways to stop this.

(15-10-2016 09:41 AM)jennybee Wrote:  You can’t understand the difference between asking a woman that you know for a date and a random man calling out to a woman telling her she’s beautiful while she walks alone on the street? Seriously?

As I said, most couples started out as strangers. So at some point the man was random and the woman was random for most people. Saying good morning beautiful and leaving the woman alone when she isn't interested. Again what method would you use to stop men from doing that, jail them or fine them?

(15-10-2016 09:41 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I think the video is helpful because it brings awareness to men about what women go through, how it makes us feel, and that we want it to stop.

The video has a flawed methodology and helps no one





https://medium.com/message/that-catcalli....t1pkm24sb

I'm not saying there aren't two sides to every debate--there most certainly are. I could find videos on why hello could be construed as sexual harassment in the right setting if said with certain body language. I could also find videos that showcase why the sexual harassment video is spot on.

Simply saying hi is not sexual harassment--it's the way it is said. For example, if I'm sitting on a plane and a male passenger sits down beside me and says hello. Totally cool--a hi is expected. If I'm walking on the street by myself and a random man out of nowhere says Helloooooo Beautiful while looking me up and down--uh yeah--I'm scared. I'm scared because there was no social situation to require the response. Maybe he literally is just being nice. But as you say, men and women are sexual creatures--so what are the chances he was simply being nice? We are also creatures that notice a fear response based on past experiences and then react accordingly as a survival technique. If we are catcalled, followed, and sexually harassed on a regular basis, of course we would assume that a random man telling us we are beautiful could mean he wants more and things could easily escalate as they have many times in the past. So to protect ourselves, unfortunately, we need to assume things *could* get worse.

Strangers do meet and form rships--you are absolutely right. But those strangers usually meet when talking about a favorite book at a book store, or a movie they just saw, or food on a menu at a restaurant. They most likely didn't meet by having some random guy shout out Heyyyyyyyy Beautiful while they are walking alone since that behavior scares most women.
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15-10-2016, 10:25 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 10:14 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I would like to add though, that you're not the first man I have heard raise these points. I think having a course in high school (or even jr high) that helps raise awareness and explain why it is scary for women and what is appropriate/not appropriate in terms of making women feel safe/ not threatened when they are out in society would be a really good idea.

What we should do is examine the reasons why men do this. We are apes and most male apes(if not all) attract women with resources. And to a larger extent male mammals are the ones that court and try to attract females(this is not to say that females don't want to attract males but they show it more in a I am worth fighting for way than a show off money for a boyfriend way). So because of this men will do anything to make sure a female is attracted to them. Now to play to this what we should do is think about the male instinct to court a female. When you explain that grouping will ruin your chances of snagging a mate, the vast majority of boys(hell even grown men) will try to write off grouping as a way to attract a female(hell the vast majority of men already don't grope random females, and I am one of them.) We can then show that giving gifts and compliments and respecting a woman's space, will give them a larger chance of getting laid. This will most definitely drive men to stop, as it has played to their instinct of passing on their genes(sex).

And as for females who grope, I have nothing. Guess that is one to stay.

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15-10-2016, 10:27 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 10:25 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 10:14 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I would like to add though, that you're not the first man I have heard raise these points. I think having a course in high school (or even jr high) that helps raise awareness and explain why it is scary for women and what is appropriate/not appropriate in terms of making women feel safe/ not threatened when they are out in society would be a really good idea.

What we should do is examine the reasons why men do this. We are apes and most male apes(if not all) attract women with resources. And to a larger extent male mammals are the ones that court and try to attract females(this is not to say that females don't want to attract males but they show it more in a I am worth fighting for way than a show off money for a boyfriend way). So because of this men will do anything to make sure a female is attracted to them. Now to play to this what we should do is think about the male instinct to court a female. When you explain that grouping will ruin your chances of snagging a mate, the vast majority of boys(hell even grown men) will try to write off grouping as a way to attract a female(hell the vast majority of men already don't grope random females, and I am one of them.) We can then show that giving gifts and compliments and respecting a woman's space, will give them a larger chance of getting laid. This will most definitely drive men to stop, as it has played to their instinct of passing on their genes(sex).

And as for females who grope, I have nothing. Guess that is one to stay.

Women look for safety and permanence. Safety and permanence is imperative for women who raise offspring.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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15-10-2016, 10:39 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 10:27 AM)Dom Wrote:  Women look for safety and permanence. Safety and permanence is imperative for women who raise offspring.

Natural selection will do that to ya Wink

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15-10-2016, 10:42 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 10:27 AM)Dom Wrote:  Women look for safety and permanence. Safety and permanence is imperative for women who raise offspring.

Natural selection will do that to ya Wink

A little evolution happened since ape times.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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15-10-2016, 10:46 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 10:42 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 10:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Natural selection will do that to ya Wink

A little evolution happened since ape times.

Well actually we still live in ape times.

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15-10-2016, 10:57 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 10:46 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 10:42 AM)Dom Wrote:  A little evolution happened since ape times.

Well actually we still live in ape times.

Well, yes, even if we evolve into little balls of slime, we will still be apes. Doesn't mean we have to behave like them. We know better.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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15-10-2016, 11:03 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 10:57 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 10:46 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Well actually we still live in ape times.

Well, yes, even if we evolve into little balls of slime, we will still be apes. Doesn't mean we have to behave like them. We know better.

Well to be technical, we act like apes now because we are apes, and second apes(especially chimpanzees) and humans share a lot of common characteristics, both of us are extremely empathetic. Hell I say we could learn from 'em

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15-10-2016, 11:29 AM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2016 11:38 AM by epronovost.)
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 10:25 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  We can then show that giving gifts and compliments and respecting a woman's space, will give them a larger chance of getting laid. This will most definitely drive men to stop, as it has played to their instinct of passing on their genes(sex).

And as for females who grope, I have nothing. Guess that is one to stay.

I think you over simplify sex and reproduction a lot.

For a human being, passing on your genes doesn't equate sex at all. Passing on your genes is also ensuring the survival of your offspring. We are a social species who gives birth to offsprings who are completly dependant on the entire group/extended family (or at least one member in modern times) for at least 5 to 7 years (know a whole lot longer). Playing on what gives you the most chance at having sex isn't necessarly playing on your instinct of passing on your genes since it occult the entire part where you are naturaly designed to bond, educate and care for your offsprings.

Sex, in many primates and also in humans, has a important social function that has nothing to do with reproduction. It can and has served for stress relief, emotional bonding, playing and even to determine social status. When someone derives pleasure and exitement from a game without the consent of the person he/she plays with, we usually call this a prank. In my opinion, many cases of groping/molestation could be crudely described as "sexual pranks". The person groping does such a thing because he/she finds it exiting and funny. It doesn't necessarly translate to a real desire to have a sexual relation with that person or any other for that matter. Since a portion of the exitement is derived from the fact that its done at the expense of someone else, targetting someone whose not consenting is essential (much like throwing a cream pie at someone who wants it can be much less funny than someone who doesn't).

This explain why both men and women can and do grope (because its a form of cruel game that the perpetrator find exiting and pleasant) and why, despite the fact that respecting and caring about a potentia partner is widely known to be the best way to attract and keep a sexual partner, groping still exist. Only deeply disturbed and poorly socialised individual grope to quench for a moment an urge to pass on their genes.

In resume, a large portion of the groping and sexual harrassment has little to do with reproduction and a lot more to do with how we play. AKA humans have a very shitty and threatening sense of humor.

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15-10-2016, 11:32 AM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2016 11:38 AM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Molestation
Not sure if anyone saw this but I figured I'd share it.

Everything A Woman Should Know (Before She’s Groped)


Edit: Oh and as I've mentioned before I worked security in a "not-entirely-legal" brothel, I can't even begin to describe the number of times I've had my crotch or ass grabbed by both female and male customers. I don't like people I don't know standing to close let alone doing that shit. Can't even imagine having to deal with that on public transit or in the home.

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