Molestation
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15-10-2016, 11:35 AM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 10:17 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 10:09 AM)Dom Wrote:  Put yourself in the woman's place. I mean, as man. Assuming that you are straight, how would you feel if those men did that to you? How would you feel about it once some of them have groped you?

If it were me? If some man said hello beautiful to me I would take that as a compliment gay man or not. And if a dude groped me I would say "if you are going to grab my ass at least take me out to dinner first"

I mean that would be what I would do Big Grin, but don't worry I won't there for say that women should do the same, because that would be uncouth for me to say.

Paragraph 1: Absolute and utter bullshit. Paragraph 2: passive-aggressive victim-blaming.

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15-10-2016, 12:24 PM
RE: Molestation
What needs to be laid down in the first place is that it's an extremely small minority of men who do these things a lot of times - if 0.1% of men grope/grab/harass women just 100 times in their lifetime, assuming no repetition, about 10% of women will have been on the other end of such an act - if we assume 500 assaults per assailant, it's either that 50% of women will have been involved, or only 0.02% (1 in 5000) of men would commit such an act. And it is a concentrated issue because in bad neighborhoods, it's endemic that older teens teach this behaviour to their younger peers.

Therefore, a generalized solution that nominates all men as potential rapists (which the currently popular "consent course" genre is doing) is not only ineffective (one who would grope 100 women wouldn't be deterred by such a lecture because they're clearly a sociopath and older kids will almost always be more influential on youngsters than their teachers) but clearly offensive to men in general, burns bridges and kills all possibility of discourse. I wouldn't grope a woman (unless she asked me to and/or she was my girlfriend), but would flip the table on any group that tells young, impressionable men, that they, I, or any man in general would do so. Because it's psychologically harmful.

Where the solution lies is police attention - officers should take these issues more seriously because by capturing a perpetrator, they usually finish dozens of cases at once, since it probably wasn't a one-time deed.
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15-10-2016, 12:31 PM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2016 12:37 PM by Metazoa Zeke.)
RE: Molestation

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15-10-2016, 12:34 PM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 11:35 AM)julep Wrote:  Paragraph 1: Absolute and utter bullshit.

Glad you know me more than meWink

(15-10-2016 11:35 AM)julep Wrote:  Paragraph 2: passive-aggressive victim-blaming.

Wow there buddy lets not get it twisted.
I said that because that only applies to me and me only. No man or woman should be victim blamed, which is why I said what I said, to disassociate the experience I would have in a situation that would be different in others.

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15-10-2016, 12:35 PM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 12:24 PM)Naridar Wrote:  What needs to be laid down in the first place is that it's an extremely small minority of men who do these things a lot of times - if 0.1% of men grope/grab/harass women just 100 times in their lifetime, assuming no repetition, about 10% of women will have been on the other end of such an act - if we assume 500 assaults per assailant, it's either that 50% of women will have been involved, or only 0.02% (1 in 5000) of men would commit such an act. And it is a concentrated issue because in bad neighborhoods, it's endemic that older teens teach this behaviour to their younger peers.

Therefore, a generalized solution that nominates all men as potential rapists (which the currently popular "consent course" genre is doing) is not only ineffective (one who would grope 100 women wouldn't be deterred by such a lecture because they're clearly a sociopath and older kids will almost always be more influential on youngsters than their teachers) but clearly offensive to men in general, burns bridges and kills all possibility of discourse. I wouldn't grope a woman (unless she asked me to and/or she was my girlfriend), but would flip the table on any group that tells young, impressionable men, that they, I, or any man in general would do so. Because it's psychologically harmful.

Where the solution lies is police attention - officers should take these issues more seriously because by capturing a perpetrator, they usually finish dozens of cases at once, since it probably wasn't a one-time deed.

While I agree with your general intent, allow me to nitpick at one of your numbers. In Canada (to my knowledge numbers are fairly similar in the Western world on this issue) around 30% of women and girls will experience a form of sexual harassment or sexual assault that ranges from groping to forceful rape. For men, its around 15 to 20%.

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15-10-2016, 12:42 PM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2016 01:02 PM by Metazoa Zeke.)
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 11:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:  For a human being, passing on your genes doesn't equate sex at all. Passing on your genes is ensuring the survival of your offspring.

well it does, humans don't bud offspring after all, sex is the only way for us to pass on our genes. To ensure the survival of your offspring, well some people lock their doors others buy guns, either way you children are safer.


(15-10-2016 11:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Playing on what gives you the most chance at having sex isn' necessarly playing on your instinct of passing on your genes since it occult the entire part where you are naturaly designed to bond, educate and care for your offsprings.

Well it does. getting laid is one part of it yes, in fact it is the major factor in it. Not saying there aren't more but I am not talking about those aspects.

(15-10-2016 11:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Sex, in many primates and also in humans, has a important social function that has nothing to do with reproduction. It can and has served for stress relief, emotional bonding, playing and even to determine social status.

Now tell me, how well would a couple who don't get along raise a child? Not well. I understand what you have mentioned, but keep in mind just because it has more uses doesn't make it the number one use.

(15-10-2016 11:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:  When someone derives pleasure and exitement from a game without the consent of the person he/she plays with, we call this a prank. In my opinion, many cases of groping/molestation could be crudely described as "sexual pranks".

I don't see it as a prank, but more like sexual frustration. I don't see a joke in groping. Most men group because the want to feel ass, many think such actions work. You would be surprised how many dumb asses think that.

(15-10-2016 11:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:  The person groping does such a thing because he/she finds it exiting and funny. It doesn't necessarly translate to a real desire to have a sexual relation with that person or any other for that matter.

Well it does. Notice how it happens to attractive men and women, and not ugly ones. Such a prank would happen to everyone, but it doesn't. It does have a lot to do with sex, in fact I would say it is the only factor.

(15-10-2016 11:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Since a portion of the exitement is derived from the fact that its done at the expense of someone else, targetting someone whose not consenting is essential (much like throwing a cream pie at someone who wants it can be much less funny than someone who doesn't).



Most pranks end with a its just a prank. Plus throwing a pie or a quick scare usually end with the person saying it is a joke. Don't really see much of that in groping.

(15-10-2016 11:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:  This explain why both men and women can and do grope (because its a form of cruel game that the perpetrator find exiting and pleasant)

Men and women grope because they want to feel someone they find attractive. Again you don't see people groping someone they find ugly.

(15-10-2016 11:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:  and why, despite the fact that respecting and caring about a potentia partner is widely known to be the best way to attract and keep a sexual partner, groping still exist.

Well humans aren't all good. We have the urge to care and the urge to kill. We like peace but like violence. You can have an empathetic species that is still evil at heart. Now what we should do is look as to what make us so. What in the million years of human evolution drove us to be this way.

(15-10-2016 11:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:  Only deeply disturbed and poorly socialised individual grope to quench for a moment an urge to pass on their genes.

Well some people aren't smart, like that girl who robbed a place and put a video on youtube about it. Tongue

(15-10-2016 11:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:  In resume, a large portion of the groping and sexual harrassment has little to do with reproduction and a lot more to do with how we play. AKA humans have a very shitty and threatening sense of humor.

Well in long term yes. Some people have a fucked up way of doing it. What I am suggesting, why not find what in human nature makes people so wrong and flip it around to make a positive aspect from it.

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15-10-2016, 12:42 PM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 10:09 AM)Dom Wrote:  Women don't welcome sexual advances from strangers while minding their own business walking down the street, same as you would not appreciate it from men if that is not your choice of partner. It's the same feeling - unwanted and scary.
The other person isn't respecting your body as being your own personal property. And if they are willing to disrespect that, while knowing that you know they are disrespecting you, then that person may be willing to take the next step which is rape. For a woman, you are probably physically weaker and hence vulnerable to this person, after this incident you are going to be feeling vulnerable, let alone violated, it would make sense that you would be very scared, perhaps this person is following your or stalking you. Perhaps other men like him are seeing you as a target.

It's not fun, I can understand how this would be terrifying.
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15-10-2016, 12:45 PM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 12:35 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 12:24 PM)Naridar Wrote:  What needs to be laid down in the first place is that it's an extremely small minority of men who do these things a lot of times - if 0.1% of men grope/grab/harass women just 100 times in their lifetime, assuming no repetition, about 10% of women will have been on the other end of such an act - if we assume 500 assaults per assailant, it's either that 50% of women will have been involved, or only 0.02% (1 in 5000) of men would commit such an act. And it is a concentrated issue because in bad neighborhoods, it's endemic that older teens teach this behaviour to their younger peers.

Therefore, a generalized solution that nominates all men as potential rapists (which the currently popular "consent course" genre is doing) is not only ineffective (one who would grope 100 women wouldn't be deterred by such a lecture because they're clearly a sociopath and older kids will almost always be more influential on youngsters than their teachers) but clearly offensive to men in general, burns bridges and kills all possibility of discourse. I wouldn't grope a woman (unless she asked me to and/or she was my girlfriend), but would flip the table on any group that tells young, impressionable men, that they, I, or any man in general would do so. Because it's psychologically harmful.

Where the solution lies is police attention - officers should take these issues more seriously because by capturing a perpetrator, they usually finish dozens of cases at once, since it probably wasn't a one-time deed.

While I agree with your general intent, allow me to nitpick at one of your numbers. In Canada (to my knowledge numbers are fairly similar in the Western world on this issue) around 30% of women and girls will experience a form of sexual harassment or sexual assault that ranges from groping to forceful rape. For men, its around 15 to 20%.

I used an example number to illustrate my point, if we change the theoretical case-per-perpetrator number to 300, it adds up. And that men are on the receiving end of sexual assaults not orders of magnitudes less also points at this being an issue not specific to, or especially, caused by men, but a small percentage whose sexual perversions outweigh their morals (a.k.a. psychopaths)
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15-10-2016, 01:03 PM
RE: Molestation
(15-10-2016 08:40 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(15-10-2016 08:36 AM)Dom Wrote:  I wish I could make you experience that, just for a few minutes, the way women do. It's is SCARY as shit. You grow walls around you, walk quickly without looking at anything or anyone, just to get away before something happens. It's terrorizing someone.

Again I do agree that the man following her was creppy, yet again anyone following anyone is really creepy. Again I am not saying molestation and catcalling is good, but a bunch of people saying hello isn't harassment. Do you expect that men never speak or say hello to someone they find attractive?

These men are not saying "hello"to this girl so they could have a pleasant conversation about the philosopher Nietzsche. Get a clue.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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15-10-2016, 01:05 PM
RE: Molestation
I don't think your numbers will hold up at all.

There are no numbers on molestation, only on rape and sexual assault. One would assume that groping is more common because it is less criminalized. All statistics must be taken with a grain of salt on this subject - the occurrences are extremely under reported.

These stats will open the eyes for most of us:

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims...l-violence

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