Moral absolutes
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24-03-2016, 01:21 PM
RE: Moral absolutes
You know what this thread is missing?.....a good meme.
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24-03-2016, 02:01 PM
Moral absolutes
(24-03-2016 12:59 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(24-03-2016 12:56 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'd let unbeliever and the elusive Chaswick argue that

So by admitting you don't know, you are admitting that you don't, in fact, know that they actually disagree.

Unlike what you just stated.

Real smooth.

I know that one claims that morality is obviously subjective, and the other believes it's not, that's subjective is an inappropriate label.

And I'm more interested in hearing folks like Chas, and DLJ, and unbeliever work that out here, that would be fun.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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24-03-2016, 02:05 PM
Moral absolutes
(24-03-2016 01:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-03-2016 12:48 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Fact, Chas lacks a belief that morality is subjective, finding that category inappropriate.

Chas disagrees with Unbelievers contention that morality is obviously subjective.

No, I disagree that morality is adequately described by the idea 'subjective'.
That is why it is a false dichotomy - it is not the only factor.

Of course our moral choices are subjective to one degree or another since there is no objective scale on which to measure.
The only scales are created by people and are therefore not objective.


Can you provide an example of something thats adequately described as subjective?

I want to explore what it's adequate with this example, but not adequate when it comes to morality.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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24-03-2016, 02:14 PM
RE: Moral absolutes
(24-03-2016 02:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I know that one claims that morality is obviously subjective, and the other believes it's not, that's subjective is an inappropriate label.

And I'm more interested in hearing folks like Chas, and DLJ, and unbeliever work that out here, that would be fun.

It's been worked out. More accurately, it was never really a problem to begin with.

You simply have a problem with making assumptions about your opponents' positions.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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24-03-2016, 02:19 PM
RE: Moral absolutes
(24-03-2016 02:14 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(24-03-2016 02:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I know that one claims that morality is obviously subjective, and the other believes it's not, that's subjective is an inappropriate label.

And I'm more interested in hearing folks like Chas, and DLJ, and unbeliever work that out here, that would be fun.

It's been worked out. More accurately, it was never really a problem to begin with.

You simply have a problem with making assumptions about your opponents' positions.

Oh, pish tosh. Where's the fun in reading what people have already written?

It'd be harder to make up the imputed positions, then...

... this is my signature!
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24-03-2016, 02:21 PM
Moral absolutes
(24-03-2016 02:14 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(24-03-2016 02:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I know that one claims that morality is obviously subjective, and the other believes it's not, that's subjective is an inappropriate label.

And I'm more interested in hearing folks like Chas, and DLJ, and unbeliever work that out here, that would be fun.

It's been worked out. More accurately, it was never really a problem to begin with.

You simply have a problem with making assumptions about your opponents' positions.


Im still waiting on DLJ and Chas to answer my follow up questions, to allow them to speak for themselves.

As to whether you all agree with each other or not, it's not entirely clear.

Do you agree with them that subjective is not an appropriate term, can you defend that view? Or do you still hold to morality being obviously subjective.

Clearly Chas, and DLJ don't believe it's an appropriate term, though why they believe that is not entirely clear, appealing to biological factors doesn't really help, we are biological creatures biological features are present in everything

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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24-03-2016, 02:23 PM
RE: Moral absolutes
(24-03-2016 08:55 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(24-03-2016 08:32 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Huh Never heard of such a thing DLJ, care to explain to someone of non British decent?

I dunno! Some people! Facepalm Didn't you get no education?





OR




Gasp


Weeping


Blush

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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24-03-2016, 02:26 PM
Moral absolutes
I mean unbeliever you earlier claimed that morality is obviously subjective, would you now be willing to defend the argument that subjective is not an appropriate label?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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24-03-2016, 02:28 PM
RE: Moral absolutes
(24-03-2016 02:05 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-03-2016 01:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, I disagree that morality is adequately described by the idea 'subjective'.
That is why it is a false dichotomy - it is not the only factor.

Of course our moral choices are subjective to one degree or another since there is no objective scale on which to measure.
The only scales are created by people and are therefore not objective.


Can you provide an example of something thats adequately described as subjective?

Judging that one painting/color/food/song is better than another.

Quote:I want to explore what it's adequate with this example, but not adequate when it comes to morality.

Already been answered, but here you go again since you weren't paying attention.
  • Our moral sense has a basis in our biology.
  • Morals are constructed by societies.
  • Morals are taught, not inherent.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-03-2016, 02:30 PM
RE: Moral absolutes
(24-03-2016 02:21 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-03-2016 02:14 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  It's been worked out. More accurately, it was never really a problem to begin with.

You simply have a problem with making assumptions about your opponents' positions.


Im still waiting on DLJ and Chas to answer my follow up questions, to allow them to speak for themselves.

As to whether you all agree with each other or not, it's not entirely clear.

Do you agree with them that subjective is not an appropriate term, can you defend that view? Or do you still hold to morality being obviously subjective.

Clearly Chas, and DLJ don't believe it's an appropriate term, though why they believe that is not entirely clear, appealing to biological factors doesn't really help, we are biological creatures biological features are present in everything

'Subjective' is appropriate, it's just not adequate; there's more to it than that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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