Moral men and women will deny women equal rights.
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21-06-2013, 12:05 PM
RE: Moral men and women will deny women equal rights.
(21-06-2013 11:57 AM)amyb Wrote:  I would like to see peer-reviewed articles saying that men are unable to gain intelligence at the same rate as women.

I surveyed the people in my lab (we are graduate physics students). There are three women and one man (me). All of them agreed with my findings, thus constituting peer review.

SCIENCE FACT.
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21-06-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: Moral men and women will deny women equal rights.
(21-06-2013 11:57 AM)amyb Wrote:  Sex is not the same thing as gender.

We are not talking about body fat percentage, we're talking about being fit to rule, which I think depends on the individual and has nothing at all to do with the amount of muscle you have. I'm also not talking about hormones and genes. I never said "Women have the same amount of testosterone as men!" (which also influenced ability to gain muscle mass) which you seem to think I have said. I said that ability to rule probably has nothing to do with genitals.

I would like to see peer-reviewed articles saying that men are unable to gain intelligence at the same rate as women.

You are totally taking everything said out of context and in a personal matter. take a step back and see it from an outside view.

Sex and Gender are the same thing whether you think so or not. Women and Men are different whether you think so or not. Also, Hormones have a huge effect towards their leadership ability. Their Mood, temperment, behavior are all based off of Hormones, which would directly effect their leadership capability.

http://thesaurus.com/browse/Gender?s=t&path=/

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
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21-06-2013, 12:09 PM
RE: Moral men and women will deny women equal rights.
What cjlr said. There more variance within a sex than what will predictably be found between any two individual of opposite sex, which makes defining anyone's abilities by their genitals problematic. I would suggest it's a better idea to define the strengths and weaknesses of any one individual for ruling (or whatever you have in mind).

And yes, sex refers to physical attributes and/or chromosomes, gender is how one identifies mentally and/or in society. I make this distinction because I don't consider myself cisgender.

ETA: Nah, I'm done here. You have internalized your sexist POV to the extent that you can't think logically.
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21-06-2013, 12:12 PM
RE: Moral men and women will deny women equal rights.
(21-06-2013 12:07 PM)Likos02 Wrote:  Sex and Gender are the same thing whether you think so or not.

Except that's plainly not true. What might be variously called 'identity' is a combination of equipment, identity, and orientation. You don't get to tell people they don't exist; you're not the one living their identities.


(21-06-2013 12:07 PM)Likos02 Wrote:  Women and Men are different whether you think so or not. Also, Hormones have a huge effect towards their leadership ability. Their Mood, temperment, behavior are all based off of Hormones, which would directly effect their leadership capability.

Yes. Except variation between those categories is far smaller than variation within those categories, rendering it statistically negligible for most purposes.
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21-06-2013, 12:13 PM
RE: Moral men and women will deny women equal rights.
Yes....I'm sexist because I let my wife run my household. I'm sexist because I acknowledge and respect women for being able to do things I can't. I know what my Gender can and cannot do, and I don't fight for "Men's equality" with a militant fervor. I'm sorry that I don't agree with you, but that does not make me sexist.

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21-06-2013, 12:19 PM
RE: Moral men and women will deny women equal rights.
You're sexist because you think leadership ability is based on genitalia. That's not an insult, it's just an observation that you think one's genitals and hormones are more important than one's mind and personality. Also, you seem to be confusing "sexism" with "misogyny." I never called you a misogynist. Thinking women are automatically superior is also sexist.
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21-06-2013, 12:22 PM
RE: Moral men and women will deny women equal rights.
(21-06-2013 12:12 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(21-06-2013 12:07 PM)Likos02 Wrote:  Sex and Gender are the same thing whether you think so or not.

Except that's plainly not true. What might be variously called 'identity' is a combination of equipment, identity, and orientation. You don't get to tell people they don't exist; you're not the one living their identities.


(21-06-2013 12:07 PM)Likos02 Wrote:  Women and Men are different whether you think so or not. Also, Hormones have a huge effect towards their leadership ability. Their Mood, temperment, behavior are all based off of Hormones, which would directly effect their leadership capability.

Yes. Except variation between those categories is far smaller than variation within those categories, rendering it statistically negligible for most purposes.

So you think that a woman's (or mens) Hormones have no bearing on their leadership abilities whatsoever?

Being in the military, seeing both genders in leadership roles, you can clearly see the difference. A woman tends to take the "loving mother" role, whereas the men tend to take the "discipline dad" role. sure there are exceptions to the rule, and neither are better than the other...but there is a huge difference (generally) between how a woman leads, and how a man leads.

And for the last time, OP doesn't want women oppressed, he wants them to rule...I don't agree with his assumptions, but at least I'm getting the point of what OP is trying to convey.

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21-06-2013, 12:24 PM
RE: Moral men and women will deny women equal rights.
^I think it depends on the person, including depending on to what extent the person is influenced by hormones and societal expectations of gender roles. I don't see all women as "loving mothers," for example.
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21-06-2013, 12:31 PM
RE: Moral men and women will deny women equal rights.
Oh definitely not, Like i said there are always exceptions to the rule.

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21-06-2013, 12:33 PM (This post was last modified: 21-06-2013 12:38 PM by cjlr.)
RE: Moral men and women will deny women equal rights.
(21-06-2013 12:22 PM)Likos02 Wrote:  So you think that a woman's (or man's) hormones have no bearing on their leadership abilities whatsoever?

No, I didn't say that.

What I said was that even though there are small differences in hormone levels betwen the average man and the average woman, those differences are not generally statistically significant, because for any characteristic you care to measure, the 'average' point for one will be well inside the distribution for the other.

Consider the following (ignore the axes - it's the lineshape that's relevant):
[Image: WorkingMemoryEffectSize.png]
For an attribute 'x', there is a substantial minority of one group who will be beyond the average of the other (ie more 'x' than the average member of the group that is itself more 'x' in the average).

(21-06-2013 12:22 PM)Likos02 Wrote:  Being in the military, seeing both genders in leadership roles, you can clearly see the difference...

That is not a biological difference. That is a social difference.
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