Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
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16-04-2016, 09:10 AM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
I sell it. I do not consider it to be something bad. Funeral houses profit from death every day.

As for everyone knowing if cash would be good then I think I could live with that.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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16-04-2016, 10:45 AM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(16-04-2016 08:27 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(16-04-2016 07:42 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Do you sell or donate? Why/why not?

first inclination...

Neither. I license it to the news media because those vultures are going to use it to make money and them showing it won't undo the disaster or help anybody. I allow free access to any legitimate group involved in investigating dam safety and new construction methods to reduce the odds of it happening again.

The only thing I would alter is that I would consider giving some or all of the licensing profits to charity. Maybe set up a fund or donate it to a secular charity involved in the disaster relief.

If I created something like an artwork or a game or something, then I would expect to be compensated for it, but this scenario is simply a person being in the right place at the right time.

As others have noted, the footage would be of historical value, help prevent future disasters and possibly generate revenue to aid the victims.

In my mind, that supersedes my rights as the creator of the video.

That is my opinion, however.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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16-04-2016, 10:47 AM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(16-04-2016 07:42 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  There is a huge range of moral and/or ethical ideals in the world because people are varied and environmentally and socially influenced from many cultures. I thought it might be interesting to see that played out in a variety of Q & A's on moral or ethical events/scenarios/dilemma's and see where that takes us.

This thread is not designed to be judgmental, so lets keep it as a POV lesson. I like challenging my POV and since we have such a wide geographical and socioeconomically varied mix on TTA I thought this would be a good place to learn from cultures other than our own microcosms.

Hopefully the questions and answers will get more complex and thought provoking as we go along. Feel free to answer any question, post your own dilemma or both.

********************

You have witnessed a major natural disaster: As you were out driving and getting ready to cross the dam of a huge lake the earth starts to shake and you realize an earthquake is happening. After getting to safety, you call 911 to report cracks forming in the dam, then you grab your camera and start filming. You capture the moment when the dam fails and water floods the riverbed and parkland sweeping away people below the dam and foreseeably many others downstream. The footage is amazing, if nauseating, in it's destruction.

Eventually the news teams show up and suddenly you realize that your video is the only footage of this mega disaster and the news media wants it now.

Do you give it up for free because it's news or do you negotiate to the highest bidder? It will be one of history's major natural disaster films of all time, seen by billions of people and your name will forever be attached to it but if you give it up you will only be credited with the video, the news company will make all the money off of it. However; if you sell it, everyone will know you sold the news event of a lifetime (as well as the death of those victims) for cash.

Do you sell or donate? Why/why not?

The news organization is gonna make millions off it, why shouldn't you?
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16-04-2016, 10:53 AM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(16-04-2016 08:51 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(16-04-2016 08:41 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Not a realistic scenario? Yes it happens, re: tsunami videos, dam break videos and other disasters caught on tape.

It may not be relative to you but it is realistic.

What is it with you Murikans and irony?

You asked us foreigners to think locally and then told us we'd dial 911.

Weeping

So dial 911 and ask the broad in New York to send help to Bangladesh!
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16-04-2016, 11:02 AM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(16-04-2016 08:34 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  ...
I live by the trader principle. If I've produced something of value, why should I give it up.
...

I guess it depends whether that 'value' aligns to your own values.

I see value from a crisis management / disaster recovery / lessons learned perspective (hence my answer, above) but my personal values are not aligned to the values of the titillation peddlers of news media so I would not give it or sell it to them.

Here's a secondary question ... what about making money from telling my story about not what I witnessed but from interviews relating to what I did with the footage?

I'd have no problem with that. They'd be buying my time.

Smile

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16-04-2016, 11:50 AM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2016 11:55 AM by true scotsman.)
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(16-04-2016 11:02 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(16-04-2016 08:34 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  ...
I live by the trader principle. If I've produced something of value, why should I give it up.
...

I guess it depends whether that 'value' aligns to your own values.

I see value from a crisis management / disaster recovery / lessons learned perspective (hence my answer, above) but my personal values are not aligned to the values of the titillation peddlers of news media so I would not give it or sell it to them.

Here's a secondary question ... what about making money from telling my story about not what I witnessed but from interviews relating to what I did with the footage?

I'd have no problem with that. They'd be buying my time.

Smile

Obviously if no one is interested in seeing the footage of the dam breaking then it will be of little value. Perhaps those most interested in seeing it would be those affected by the disaster. I remember several years ago when there was a large forest fire that came within a mile of my house (the High Meadow fire in Bailey, Colorado), I couldn't get enough of the coverage. I didn't care that people were making money selling footage of the fire. I don't expect people to provide services to me for free. Without it, I'd have been in the dark as to the extent of the fire. I mean I could walk out on my front porch and see the flames up on the ridge but that didn't tell me much about the size and the direction the fire was moving. So those filming the fire and reporting on it were doing me a valuable service. I was almost certain that my house was going to be lost and if not for favorable winds it would have along with thousands more. If people want to see the footage and if I'm able to provide it then it is a win-win situation. I wouldn't have a problem with making money off of the sale of the footage and also about talking about what I did with it. I could and probably would give some of the money to those who were effected just as I have done in other disasters, because I care about people. But I don't see it as a duty or obligation but as good will.

The thing I object to is the premise that because someone is in need or is suffering I have some moral obligation to sacrifice my values. People are suffering and dying all over the place. Is it my duty to ease their suffering? If so then I become nothing more than a means to other's ends, a sacrificial animal.

I find it interesting that all of these moral dilemma questions involve some disaster or what is call lifeboat scenarios. You're in a lifeboat with two other people and there is only enough room for one. What would you do? Implicit in these type of questions is the notion that morality does not apply to normal life.

On the Objectivist view there is a special set of ethics for these disaster type scenarios. We call it the ethics of emergency. In an emergency, normal living conditions are no longer existent. The goal is to get back to some type of normal conditions as quickly as possible. So it is proper and good to help others and band together to get through the situation. So if in Heatheness' scenario there were people in danger I'd not be filming but trying my best to help them. I'd drop the camera and get to work. But after everything is settled down I have no obligation to search out other people to rescue wherever they might be. I can then proceed to go back to living my life, pursuing my own rational self interest and working toward my own happiness.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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16-04-2016, 12:15 PM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2016 12:59 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(16-04-2016 11:50 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  ...
Obviously if no one is interested in seeing the footage of the dam breaking then it will be of little value. Perhaps those most interested in seeing it would be those affected by the disaster.
...

I see a big difference between those two elements.

I've already expressed my view on the first part (evidence relating to the start of the event) but the second part is about managing the on-going major incident - news teams will presumably be covering that so it's not my footage.


(16-04-2016 11:50 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  ...
The thing I object to is the premise that because someone is in need or is suffering I have some moral obligation to sacrifice my values. People are suffering and dying all over the place. Is it my duty to ease their suffering? If so then I become nothing more than a means to other's ends, a sacrificial animal.
...

I don't see this as relevant. The relevant ethic, for me, relates to my view of mass media.

(16-04-2016 11:50 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  ...
I find it interesting that all of these moral dilemma questions involve some disaster or what is call lifeboat scenarios. You're in a lifeboat with two other people and there is only enough room for one. What would you do?
...

I'd see it as an opportunity to learn to swim.

Self-sacrifice is not an issue for me. Kinda where Ayn Rand and I disagree.

(16-04-2016 11:50 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  ...
Implicit in these type of questions is the notion that morality does not apply to normal life.
...

In terms of best practice processes, this is sorta true.

Normal life (peace time) is managed by various 'steady-state' processes but include management of events, incidents, problems and change.

Whereas, the not-normal life (war time) process that kicks in, in these scenarios, is called Continuity Management (i.e. BCP/DR) which includes a 'back to normal' phase (although the new normal is not necessarily the same as the old normal; a new steady state).

So 'morality' applies to both but it's a different paradigm.

(16-04-2016 11:50 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  ...
On the Objectivist view there is a special set of ethics for these disaster type scenarios. We call it the ethics of emergency. In an emergency, normal living conditions are no longer existent. The goal is to get back to some type of normal conditions as quickly as possible. So it is proper and good to help others and band together to get through the situation.
...

Exactly. I have flow diagrams if you're interested. Big Grin

(16-04-2016 11:50 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  ...
So if in Heatheness' scenario there were people in danger I'd not be filming but trying my best to help them. I'd drop the camera and get to work. But after everything is settled down I have no obligation to search out other people to rescue wherever they might be. I can then proceed to go back to living my life, pursuing my own rational self interest and working toward my own happiness.

No obligation unless you had an assigned role (with appropriate training etc.)

On this part, we agree.

Thumbsup

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16-04-2016, 12:49 PM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
I'd take the cash. Ok, it's sad for the victims and their families, but life goes on. The fact that everybody would know the I made a rake of cash from other peoples grief would not bother me in the least.

“The first duty of a man is to think for himself” ― José Martí
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16-04-2016, 12:50 PM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
I don't think making money off of happenstance photoage would cross my mind.

I thought this would be some trolley problem stuff

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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16-04-2016, 05:56 PM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
As it'd be extremely unlikely to affect the grief of the survivors or the families of the deceased one way or the other, I'd have no compunction in selling my footage of the event to the highest bidder. Look at the money that's been made off the Hindenburg disaster for example; individual cutlery items that were used by its passengers are today selling at $10,000 for a knife or fork.

On the other (hypothetical) hand however, if I could've saved even one life at the dam, I would've thrown my camera away, and not worried in the least about missing capturing it on film.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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