Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
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01-05-2016, 11:19 AM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(30-04-2016 07:29 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Here's a very small moral dilemma that is real.

You go to the bait shop to pick up minnows to go fishing. The local fishing/bait store is now a big area dealer in bait and they started selling in bulk to individuals as well. That's fine but now they don't sell small quantities of minnows anymore. When you order a dozen minnows and they try to give you a pound of minnows instead, which works out to be about 70-80 minnows.

Your options;

1) Buy the minnows and set up an aquarium for the leftovers, having to care for them for a year or more in order to use a few for fishing each week.

2) You can dispose of the remaining 65 or so unused minnows on the ground to die or trash them (it's illegal to release them into the lakes here) which is what they seem to expect.

3) You can buy a box of worms which you can still buy by the dozen and forget every using minnows (which some fish only like) or ever eating the fish that like them.

4) Give up fishing because you're only one person and not the sales target for your bait shop anymore.


Simply put, morally, are small lives that are heavily populated less valuable and disposable?

More importantly, how many bugs did you smash with your car on the way to the bait shop?

How about the ethics of catching and eating fish?

In all seriousness, you're concerned about dropping a minnow on the ground, but have no qualms about sticking them on a hook and using them for bait? Huh

You also left out some other options....

5) take a dozen minnows for yourself and sell the rest on craigslist

6) eat the unused minnows
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01-05-2016, 12:00 PM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(01-05-2016 11:19 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(30-04-2016 07:29 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Here's a very small moral dilemma that is real.

You go to the bait shop to pick up minnows to go fishing. The local fishing/bait store is now a big area dealer in bait and they started selling in bulk to individuals as well. That's fine but now they don't sell small quantities of minnows anymore. When you order a dozen minnows and they try to give you a pound of minnows instead, which works out to be about 70-80 minnows.

Your options;

1) Buy the minnows and set up an aquarium for the leftovers, having to care for them for a year or more in order to use a few for fishing each week.

2) You can dispose of the remaining 65 or so unused minnows on the ground to die or trash them (it's illegal to release them into the lakes here) which is what they seem to expect.

3) You can buy a box of worms which you can still buy by the dozen and forget every using minnows (which some fish only like) or ever eating the fish that like them.

4) Give up fishing because you're only one person and not the sales target for your bait shop anymore.


Simply put, morally, are small lives that are heavily populated less valuable and disposable?

More importantly, how many bugs did you smash with your car on the way to the bait shop?

How about the ethics of catching and eating fish?

In all seriousness, you're concerned about dropping a minnow on the ground, but have no qualms about sticking them on a hook and using them for bait? Huh

You also left out some other options....

5) take a dozen minnows for yourself and sell the rest on craigslist

6) eat the unused minnows

Wow, was my response really that bad? (this is the post that got me a negative rep from Heatheness)

I must have invaded her safe space.
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01-05-2016, 12:21 PM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(01-05-2016 12:00 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(01-05-2016 11:19 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  More importantly, how many bugs did you smash with your car on the way to the bait shop?

How about the ethics of catching and eating fish?

In all seriousness, you're concerned about dropping a minnow on the ground, but have no qualms about sticking them on a hook and using them for bait? Huh

You also left out some other options....

5) take a dozen minnows for yourself and sell the rest on craigslist

6) eat the unused minnows

Wow, was my response really that bad? (this is the post that got me a negative rep from Heatheness)

I must have invaded her safe space.

While you definitely weren't trolling, it may be because you didn't answer the question. Dunno'.

Anyway, if I were to answer it, I'd say life isn't inherently valuable, and I have no qualms with killing 'small lives' for little reason. However with absolutely no reason I wouldn't kill things. In heather's scenario, the convenience of buying bait at that store may be enough reason for me to end some of said baits lives.
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01-05-2016, 12:26 PM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(01-05-2016 12:21 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Anyway, if I were to answer it, I'd say life isn't inherently valuable, and I have no qualms with killing 'small lives' for little reason. However with absolutely no reason I wouldn't kill things. In heather's scenario, the convenience of buying bait at that store may be enough reason for me to end some of said baits lives.

Good point.

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01-05-2016, 12:32 PM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(01-05-2016 12:21 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(01-05-2016 12:00 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Wow, was my response really that bad? (this is the post that got me a negative rep from Heatheness)

I must have invaded her safe space.

While you definitely weren't trolling, it may be because you didn't answer the question. Dunno'.

Anyway, if I were to answer it, I'd say life isn't inherently valuable, and I have no qualms with killing 'small lives' for little reason. However with absolutely no reason I wouldn't kill things. In heather's scenario, the convenience of buying bait at that store may be enough reason for me to end some of said baits lives.

Ok. Given the options she listed, I would choose option 2 even though fish might feel pain. Some claim that they do indeed feel pain.
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01-05-2016, 12:41 PM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(01-05-2016 12:21 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(01-05-2016 12:00 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Wow, was my response really that bad? (this is the post that got me a negative rep from Heatheness)

I must have invaded her safe space.

While you definitely weren't trolling, it may be because you didn't answer the question. Dunno'.

Anyway, if I were to answer it, I'd say life isn't inherently valuable, and I have no qualms with killing 'small lives' for little reason. However with absolutely no reason I wouldn't kill things. In heather's scenario, the convenience of buying bait at that store may be enough reason for me to end some of said baits lives.

I'd have no problem killing them just for fun. Isn't that why 1st world humans go fishing anyways...just for fun? Hell we could all survive just fine as vegans, but we find it fun to eat meat. Just don't see much of a quandary here.
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01-05-2016, 12:54 PM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(30-04-2016 07:29 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  ...
Simply put, morally, are small lives that are heavily populated less valuable and disposable?

#smalllivesmatter.

Angel

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01-05-2016, 01:00 PM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(01-05-2016 12:41 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(01-05-2016 12:21 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  While you definitely weren't trolling, it may be because you didn't answer the question. Dunno'.

Anyway, if I were to answer it, I'd say life isn't inherently valuable, and I have no qualms with killing 'small lives' for little reason. However with absolutely no reason I wouldn't kill things. In heather's scenario, the convenience of buying bait at that store may be enough reason for me to end some of said baits lives.

I'd have no problem killing them just for fun. Isn't that why 1st world humans go fishing anyways...just for fun? Hell we could all survive just fine as vegans, but we find it fun to eat meat. Just don't see much of a quandary here.

I don't think most fishermen kill their catch just for fun lol.

Even for sport, the act of fishing taps into our hunter instinct, thus releasing endorphins, thus making us feel good. This separates it from just buying fish at a store to kill them. Then again maybe that act causes 'good feelings' in some lol.
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01-05-2016, 01:05 PM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(01-05-2016 01:00 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(01-05-2016 12:41 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  I'd have no problem killing them just for fun. Isn't that why 1st world humans go fishing anyways...just for fun? Hell we could all survive just fine as vegans, but we find it fun to eat meat. Just don't see much of a quandary here.

I don't think most fishermen kill their catch just for fun lol.

Even for sport, the act of fishing taps into our hunter instinct, thus releasing endorphins, thus making us feel good. This separates it from just buying fish at a store to kill them. Then again maybe that act causes 'good feelings' in some lol.

You're talking to an avid hunter here, you don't need to explain hunter instinct to me. I can also tell you this, the reason I hunt and fish is because it's fun. Same reason I eat meat. I'm sure I'd be healthier as a vegan, but life is less fun without bacon.
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01-05-2016, 01:20 PM
RE: Moral or Ethical Dilemma's, Q & A's
(01-05-2016 01:05 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(01-05-2016 01:00 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  I don't think most fishermen kill their catch just for fun lol.

Even for sport, the act of fishing taps into our hunter instinct, thus releasing endorphins, thus making us feel good. This separates it from just buying fish at a store to kill them. Then again maybe that act causes 'good feelings' in some lol.

You're talking to an avid hunter here, you don't need to explain hunter instinct to me. I can also tell you this, the reason I hunt and fish is because it's fun. Same reason I eat meat. I'm sure I'd be healthier as a vegan, but life is less fun without bacon.

Can hunting be logically reduced to killing? Well, no, it can't. You can kill something without having hunted it. So you can have fun hunting, without necessarily having fun just killing. I fish, too, because it's fun. But going to the store, buying a live fish, then killing it, wouldn't cause the same feeling of 'fun' in to occur in me. You explicitly said you'd kill them for fun. Maybe you meant, "hunt, then kill." I was just identfying the difference between hunting and killing since it seemed like you were conflating them, but I think we agree here, man.
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