Morality
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04-01-2013, 10:41 AM
RE: Morality
(02-01-2013 12:35 AM)Austavion Wrote:  Namiloveyou, I think you might change your philosophy if, like morondog said, you were on the other side of apartheid. Or, getting robbed,assaulted, or tortured. I think that infinite morality would tighten a bit if you were watching a child get tortured and had the power to stop it.

I do, however, think that approach to morality in a naturalistic framework is fairly compatible though, which is the problem.

Most people in modern society endorse these morals. I don't see how that is in dispute.
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04-01-2013, 11:34 AM
RE: Morality
(04-01-2013 10:36 AM)namiloveyou Wrote:  
(01-01-2013 08:44 PM)DLJ Wrote:  One of the posters above is claiming to value none of the above.

Consider

Societies usually has a way of isolating people like that for the well-being of the majority.

Similarly, a laissez-faire attitude usually has its own rewards... the burnt hand is the best teacher.

Smartass
yeah... and most people in modern society DON'T have a laissez-faire moral system.

And your point is?

Sleepy

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04-01-2013, 12:47 PM
RE: Morality
that you're demonishing a "laissez-faire" moral system, when most in modern society adhere to this.
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04-01-2013, 02:28 PM
RE: Morality
(04-01-2013 12:47 PM)namiloveyou Wrote:  that you're demonishing a "laissez-faire" moral system, when most in modern society adhere to this.

Please clarify...

demolishing or demonising or deminishing?

Also, please clarify...

Your last post implies you think that "most in modern society adhere to" "a "laissez-faire" moral system"

whereas your earlier post states that you think that...
"most people in modern society DON'T have a laissez-faire moral system."

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04-01-2013, 02:32 PM
Re: RE: Morality
(04-01-2013 12:47 PM)namiloveyou Wrote:  that you're demonishing a "laissez-faire" moral system, when most in modern society adhere to this.

Your basis for that claim is?

"Love is hot, Truth is molten!"
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05-01-2013, 03:42 PM
RE: Morality
(04-01-2013 02:28 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 12:47 PM)namiloveyou Wrote:  that you're demonishing a "laissez-faire" moral system, when most in modern society adhere to this.

Please clarify...

demolishing or demonising or deminishing?

Also, please clarify...

Your last post implies you think that "most in modern society adhere to" "a "laissez-faire" moral system"

whereas your earlier post states that you think that...
"most people in modern society DON'T have a laissez-faire moral system."

RSVP
I know this from everyday interactions.
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05-01-2013, 06:49 PM
RE: Morality
I can really only answer for myself.

The way I see it, is my morals come from two things.... (And excuse me if I'm repeating what others have said much more eloquently)... What I want for myself being the first. For example, I don't want to be killed, so I tend not to go around killing others. I rather like being alive. So I guess it's the "golden rule" at work.

Secondly they come from what I've been taught by my family/social group/society. As a social species we tend to adopt the morals of those people who we are raised around, for survival, etc.

Obviously this is not 100 percent the case, people obviously adopt other ideas and change. But I'm just speaking for myself.

*shrug*
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05-01-2013, 06:58 PM
RE: Morality
(04-01-2013 02:32 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 12:47 PM)namiloveyou Wrote:  that you're demonishing a "laissez-faire" moral system, when most in modern society adhere to this.

Your basis for that claim is?
how people in modern Western society behave and interact.
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05-01-2013, 06:59 PM
RE: Morality
(05-01-2013 06:49 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  I can really only answer for myself.

The way I see it, is my morals come from two things.... (And excuse me if I'm repeating what others have said much more eloquently)... What I want for myself being the first. For example, I don't want to be killed, so I tend not to go around killing others. I rather like being alive. So I guess it's the "golden rule" at work.

Secondly they come from what I've been taught by my family/social group/society. As a social species we tend to adopt the morals of those people who we are raised around, for survival, etc.

Obviously this is not 100 percent the case, people obviously adopt other ideas and change. But I'm just speaking for myself.

*shrug*
morality merely is the personal whim of the individual.

in fact morals don't really exist. anything goes in life. anything
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05-01-2013, 07:04 PM
RE: Morality
(29-12-2012 12:42 PM)Austavion Wrote:  This questions has been plaguing me for a while: How do atheists determine and defend a moral framework, both personally and socially?

I would assume most atheists would point to evolution as the cause of morality as we know it, with the intent to expand and protect the species. This would also mean that actions or lifestyles that didn't promote this expansion could arguably be wrong with this philosophy (abortion, homosexuality, contraception, etc). One could say the earth is already overpopulated, but wouldn't that void the whole framework? If not, who gets to chose what is applicable and irrelevant?

If morality is something that is personally chosen (subjective from person to person), how could someone tell anyone they are doing wrong? If this was determined through a democratic process by country, how could one country have the authority to tell another country they are doing something wrong, let alone act on it?

Lastly, Sam Harris believes there may be moral truth that can be determined through neuroscience. But for one, that day isn't here and how do you determine right and wrong until then? And two, science is about measured, repeatable results. Simply measuring neuro chemicals or responses in a brain to determine some sort of well being or happiness would seem like an over simplification. You could fix all of the moral wrongs with a pill. Also, if the science showed undesirable results that disagreed with our personal opinions, we be ok submissing to them? His approach seems to require a philosophical start point or end point removed from empirical facts.
I didn't read through the other replies but I want to give my say.

I am an Atheist and I have a moral code. Consciousness is all we have, it is what gives us this experience we are all so familiar with, and without it there would be nothing. What is moral correlates directly with the well being of consciousness.

Evolution is exactly where this stems from, we see in nature that species in the same group are not likely to start killing each other, this activity would result in a net loss of reproduction and so those traits would not be passed down.

We know consciousness is all we have and there are different things that affect the conscious mind in different ways. Pain for example is a stimuli that the conscious mind does not enjoy, this should be obvious to everyone, so it is moral to cause no pain. There are circumstances in which pain will be inevitable, and in these cases we go with the path that results in the least amount of pain to the least amount of people.

It is not difficult to apply this understanding of morality to every situation, if you want me to give an example of how it applies to a different situation, give me a different situation.

2.5 billion seconds total
1.67 billion seconds conscious

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