Morality
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02-04-2012, 04:57 PM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2012 05:05 PM by justmetoo.)
Morality
I get so tired of those people who think they have monopoly on the word Morality.



We all have our own form of morality and it doesn't have anything to do with God, but with the society we were brought up into. Morality is nothing more than a gauge of conduct. It defines what we allow ourselves to do in ordinary circumstances. Just because others don't follow the guidelines that some hold to, does not make them amoral or even immoral.

Morality is a gauge starts at the side defining just how far out on a limb that person would go to help someone they don't know and on the other end, how far that same person would go to get what they want.

Some people would steal, as others would not. Some would kill as others would not. Is the person who kills in the name of God any different than the person who kills in the name of greed? I think not! I think the main importance of the sentence would be killing, not why.

Acting in a dignified manner is not being moral. You can look at our so-called leaders and see that. It is acting in accordance to the culture that one finds himself. In one culture, a thief would get his hand cut off and in another, he would go to jail. I know of people who are Gay, whom many call immoral that would do more for these so-called moral people than those people would do for any gay person.

These moralist call upon the name of Christ and then they conveniently forget the very teachings attributed to this person. God, in the Bible was supposed to have given us a choice and many of these moralist would rather take this choice away, by forcing their ideals and aspirations upon the rest of the world by legislative fiat. You can get more from love than you can with hate. What image does religious groups carrying signs, condemning others reveal to the rest of world, other than a disinterest and disgust in it.

I have been asked many times, "Why should we have any interest in their world?" My only answer is, maybe to show those on the sidelines what true morality, compassion and concern is and that it doesn't come from a book, but from a heart.
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02-04-2012, 05:08 PM
RE: Morality
As much as I agree with you, I consider morality 'better' (well, not better per se, but I can't think of a more appropriate word right now) when it comes from the mind, than from the heart. Emotion is impulsive, intuitive and often illogical; whereas logic is, well, logical, and obtained by thought and usually reasonable (well, ideally). So I think morality should come primarily from the mind. Mr. Spock kind of thing.

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02-04-2012, 05:15 PM
RE: Morality
(02-04-2012 05:08 PM)le_procyon Wrote:  As much as I agree with you, I consider morality 'better' (well, not better per se, but I can't think of a more appropriate word right now) when it comes from the mind, than from the heart. Emotion is impulsive, intuitive and often illogical; whereas logic is, well, logical, and obtained by thought and usually reasonable (well, ideally). So I think morality should come primarily from the mind. Mr. Spock kind of thing.
I like your thinking on this and would love to get into a discussion about Logic and Emotion. I still feel that logic has more to do with how you go about doing something as opposed to what you do.
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02-04-2012, 05:40 PM
RE: Morality
Logic is a subset of emotion and morality is chemical intelligence. You peeps are talking about ethics.

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02-04-2012, 05:58 PM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2012 06:01 PM by Stevil.)
RE: Morality
Morality is an illusion, a belief.

I have no belief in morality.

Christian morality is simply following god's static law as interpreted from the Christian scriptures. Obeying the law is not a morality, it is being law abiding.

Atheist morality is a personal guide based on personal opinion, it is for the self, it is flexible and open to change. I would regard this a personal values rather than morality.

There is no absolute definition of morality, we can easily get into arguments about semantics

I would consider "morality" to be certain actions categorised as absolute right and absolute wrong because of a belief as to how these are to be categorised. The result is taking actions, without fully understanding the underlying reasons. Morality is ambiguous.
Since I have no belief in absolute right and absolute wrong, I therefore have no belief in morality.

When you have contemplated the (self, individual and society) implications of specific actions before making your decision on what action you are to take, I wouldn't consider this "morality" but instead a conscious decision favourable towards a specific goal without, personally assessed, unacceptable consequences
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02-04-2012, 07:37 PM
RE: Morality
(02-04-2012 05:58 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Morality is an illusion, a belief.

I have no belief in morality.

Christian morality is simply following god's static law as interpreted from the Christian scriptures. Obeying the law is not a morality, it is being law abiding.

Atheist morality is a personal guide based on personal opinion, it is for the self, it is flexible and open to change. I would regard this a personal values rather than morality.

There is no absolute definition of morality, we can easily get into arguments about semantics

I would consider "morality" to be certain actions categorized as absolute right and absolute wrong because of a belief as to how these are to be categorized. The result is taking actions, without fully understanding the underlying reasons. Morality is ambiguous.
Since I have no belief in absolute right and absolute wrong, I therefore have no belief in morality.

When you have contemplated the (self, individual and society) implications of specific actions before making your decision on what action you are to take, I wouldn't consider this "morality" but instead a conscious decision favourable towards a specific goal without, personally assessed, unacceptable consequences
Did you actually read what I posted. You are saying almost exactly what i did and making it sound like you are somehow in a disagreement with me. Please read what I said. please.
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02-04-2012, 07:44 PM
RE: Morality
(02-04-2012 07:37 PM)justmetoo Wrote:  Did you actually read what I posted. You are saying almost exactly what i did and making it sound like you are somehow in a disagreement with me. Please read what I said. please.
Huh? I did read what you had said. My post was not to say that you were wrong, where did I say that?

I have just stated my own opinion with regards to morality, if it supports or contradicts what you have said then that is just coincidence.
I hope at least, that my post is on topic.
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02-04-2012, 09:46 PM (This post was last modified: 02-04-2012 09:54 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Morality
Morality is a construct of social evolution. It promotes group forming, (and sustaining), behaviors. All primate societies have "moralities".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_morality
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Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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02-04-2012, 09:52 PM
RE: Morality
(02-04-2012 07:44 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(02-04-2012 07:37 PM)justmetoo Wrote:  Did you actually read what I posted. You are saying almost exactly what i did and making it sound like you are somehow in a disagreement with me. Please read what I said. please.
Huh? I did read what you had said. My post was not to say that you were wrong, where did I say that?

I have just stated my own opinion with regards to morality, if it supports or contradicts what you have said then that is just coincidence.
I hope at least, that my post is on topic.
Sorry, I've never seen anyone actually read a post, rewrite it almost verbatim and not once acknowledge any agreement with the OP. I have had the experience of someone noting the topic and jumping to conclusions about what I was saying. Morality, almost always seems to be connected with Christianity, which I've tried to debunk. It's a very touchy topic and potentially explosive one.

On another board some guy assumed I was a moralist and ranted that I must want to suck Ronald Reagan's male member, before he even read the first sentence of my post. I now make positively certain people understand what I'm doing.
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02-04-2012, 10:20 PM
RE: Morality
(02-04-2012 09:52 PM)justmetoo Wrote:  Sorry, I've never seen anyone actually read a post, rewrite it almost verbatim and not once acknowledge any agreement with the OP.
Verbatim, Hmmm, my post does not have any sentences the same as yours.

The message might be similar, but that is probably because we are both atheists and the vast majority of atheists consider morality to be subjective.
I'm slightly different from the vast majority, I would call "subjective morality" personal values rather than a brand of morality.
I think it is great that you have stated that "morality" ought not be used to judge others as amoral or immoral. I would agree with this.
But for me this is why I would use the term "personal values" rather than "morality". A person being used to morality tends to vocalise the words "moral" or "immoral" publicly when judging an action. This falls into the hands of theistic morality. Whereas a person using personal values can only say "that action is against my personal values, hence I wouldn't do or condone that". Personal values ensures you internalise and personalise your opinion and this is explicitly obvious to all who hear you should you speak it outloud.

I made this distinction between personal values vs morality in my post, which is not a point that you made. I would classify this as a finer point of difference that we have rather than a complete disagreement. Almost a semantic difference on the word "morality".

So on the whole, the essence of my post is aligned with yours, but I choose not to subscribe to the "morality" word. I feel it is misleading to use it, because it means different things to theists as it does to atheists. I also feel it is a loaded word. In that it implies absolute right and wrong and hence judgement on others, because of course, people vocalise the moral/immoral words on other people's actions, e.g. "How could you do that, that was immoral!"

Given this judgement aspect to the "morality" word, I can see why theists want their morality enforced by law.

I want "morality" taken out of law completely, enforcing morality onto people, leads to oppression and conflict. Morality is very dangerous in my opinion. Without "morality" Christianity would simply be a benign belief system. With "morality" Christianity becomes oppressive and dangerous to society.

Your initial statement was
"I get so tired of those people who think they have monopoly on the word Morality"

I say leave them to their morality. Morality is a dangerous tool, I want nothing to do with it.
I am an amoralist, I have no belief in morality.
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