Morality and Atheism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
09-12-2013, 11:39 PM
RE: Morality and Atheism
(09-12-2013 10:36 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  I have never understood what belief in some invisible sky daddy has anything to do with morality. In fact, it's religious people that I've found to be incredibly heartless, using things like earthquakes and tsunamis that kill hundreds of thousands of people as a justification for their religious beliefs, saying "See! That happened to those people because they aren't Christians! God is punishing them!" I've certainly never seen an atheist look at a natural disaster and say "See! That happened to those people because they aren't atheists!" Where atheists see tragedy, Bible thumpers see opportunity.

An interesting (if a little bit long) article on morals well worth the read.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-12-2013, 11:46 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 12:42 AM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: Morality and Atheism
(09-12-2013 11:29 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 11:12 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Almost 700 years earlier and half a world away.

Well that would be Confucius then, wouldn't it.

Nope but it was a contemporary of his. Try the Buddha.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 12:42 AM
RE: Morality and Atheism
(09-12-2013 11:28 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 10:39 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  For starters, 60-ish years ago the folks who were at the forefront of "eugenics" and forced sterilization were the NDSAP (correction: NSDAP, thanks Vosur), who were led by a Catholic.

Although I doubt Hitler's Catholicity,

Oh, really? Let's see what Hitler himself said about the matter: “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.” Looks pretty convincing to me.


Quote:the fact remains that even if Hitler was a Catholic, he was also significantly opposed by Catholics.

Oh, really?

[Image: bonhoeffer_hitler-1.jpg]

[Image: Hitler%20and%20church%202.jpg]

[Image: hitler4.jpg]

[Image: priests_salute_hitler.jpg]


Quote:This is why the Reichs Concordat was such a big deal. The Vatican attempted to ensure rights for the Catholic Church in Germany in exchange for the silence of the Clergy. One of the main reasons there was a large anti-Hitler movement amongst Catholics was because of his eugenics program.
Which included the extermination of Jews, which the catholic church looked the other way for.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Taqiyya Mockingbird's post
10-12-2013, 01:24 AM
RE: Morality and Atheism
(10-12-2013 12:42 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Oh, really? Let's see what Hitler himself said about the matter: “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.” Looks pretty convincing to me.
Allow me to cite my copy of "Mein Kampf" to further establish that Hitler was indeed a Christian.

"And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord." (p. 46)

"The yoke of slavery is and always will remain the most unpleasant experience that mankind can endure. Do the Schwabing decadents look upon Germany's lot to-day as 'aesthetic'? Of course, one doesn't discuss such a question with the Jews, because they are the modern inventors of this cultural perfume. Their very existence is an incarnate denial of the beauty of God's image in His creation." (p. 107)

"What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfil [sic] the mission assigned to it by the Creator." (p. 125)

"It is just at those junctures when the idealistic attitude threatens to disappear that we notice a weakening of this force which is a necessary constituent in the founding and maintenance of the community and is thereby a necessary condition of civilization. As soon as the spirit of egotism begins to prevail among a people then the bonds of the social order break and man, by seeking his own personal happiness, veritably tumbles out of heaven and falls into hell." (p. 160)

"In short, the results of miscegenation are always the following:
(a) The level of the superior race becomes lowered;
(b) physical and mental degeneration sets in, thus leading slowly but steadily towards a progressive drying up of the vital sap.

The act which brings about such a development is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator. And as a sin this act will be avenged. Man's effort to build up something that contradicts the iron logic of Nature brings him into conflict with those principles to which he himself exclusively owes his own existence. By acting against the laws of Nature he prepares the way that leads to his ruin." (p. 162)

"How devoid of ideals and how ignoble is the whole contemporary system! The fact that the churches join in committing this sin against the image of God, even though they continue to emphasize the dignity of that image, is quite in keeping with their present activities. They talk about the Spirit, but they allow man, as the embodiment of the Spirit, to degenerate to the proletarian level. Then they look on with amazement when they realize how small is the influence of the Christian Faith in their own country and how depraved and ungodly is this riff-raff which is physically degenerate and therefore morally degenerate also. To balance this state of affairs they try to convert the Hottentots and the Zulus and the Kaffirs and to bestow on them the blessings of the Church. While our European people, God be praised and thanked, are left to become the victims of moral depravity, the pious missionary goes out to Central Africa and establishes missionary stations for negroes [sic]. Finally, sound and healthy - though primitive and backward - people will be transformed, under the name of our 'higher civilization', into a motley of lazy and brutalized mongrels." (p. 226)

"Look at the ravages from which our people are suffering daily as a result of being contaminated with Jewish blood. Bear in mind the fact that this poisonous contamination can be eliminated from the national body only after centuries, or perhaps never. Think further of how the process of racial decomposition is debasing and in some cases even destroying the fundamental Aryan qualities of our German people, so that our cultural creativeness as a nation is gradually becoming impotent and we are running the danger, at least in our great cities, of falling to the level where Southern Italy is to-day. This pestilential adulteration of the blood, of which hundreds of thousands of our people take no account, is being systematically practised [sic] by the Jew to-day. Systematically these negroid parasites in our national body corrupt our innocent fair-haired girls and thus destroy something which can no longer be replaced in this world. The two Christian denominations look on with indifference at the profanation and destruction of a noble and unique creature who was given to the world as a gift of God's grace. For the future of the world, however, it does not matter which of the two triumphs over the other, the Catholic or the Protestant. But it does matter whether Aryan humanity survives or perishes. And yet the two Christian denominations are not contending against the destroyer of the Aryan humanity but are trying to destroy one another. Everybody who has the right kind of feeling for his country is solemnly bound, each within his own denomination, to see to it that he is not constantly talking about the Will of God merely from the lips but that in actual fact he fulfils [sic] the Will of God and does not allow God's handiwork to be debased. For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties. Whoever destroy His work wages war against God's Creation and God's will." (p. 310)
Yes, I had to do this before.

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Vosur's post
10-12-2013, 02:40 AM
RE: Morality and Atheism
(09-12-2013 10:54 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  ...
See if you can guess, without looking, who might have come up with it.

Oooh! Please sir, please sir, me, me!

Was it our lord baby jesus, sir?

Quote:"Furthermore, householders, a noble disciple reflects thus: 'If someone were to address me with frivolous speech and idle chatter, that would not be pleasing and agreeable to me.
..."

The Buddha had the internet?

Who knew?

Ohmy

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
10-12-2013, 03:26 AM
RE: Morality and Atheism
(09-12-2013 09:33 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Oh God! (or Not), not another one of these threads!

WAIT!, WAIT! COME BACK, IT'S NOT WHAT YOU THINK!

Anyways, I was just thinking about my courses next semester and one of them is Shapers of Modern Thought, IE a Modern Philosophy course (in fact it's meant to be a 300 version of the 400 level Modern Philosophy course).

Drawing from what I remember of last years ethics course and reading G.K. Chesteron. It seems to me that the Idea that Atheists can't have morality would have been very relevant 60 years ago. With the likes of Nietzsche and Marx, and Bentham and Mill and the huge plethora of moral philosophers all coming out with their own system of ethics.
Atheist were at the forefront of several ideas which might seem atrocious to today's standards, such as eugenics and forced sterilization.

Most atheist have just decided to become humanitarians, but at the turn of the century this was far from the case.

Thoughts?

[Image: son-i-am-disappoint.jpg]

I expect this crap out of PJ and Heywood but I really thought you were better than this.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
10-12-2013, 03:40 AM
RE: Morality and Atheism
(10-12-2013 03:26 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 09:33 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Oh God! (or Not), not another one of these threads!

WAIT!, WAIT! COME BACK, IT'S NOT WHAT YOU THINK!

Anyways, I was just thinking about my courses next semester and one of them is Shapers of Modern Thought, IE a Modern Philosophy course (in fact it's meant to be a 300 version of the 400 level Modern Philosophy course).

Drawing from what I remember of last years ethics course and reading G.K. Chesteron. It seems to me that the Idea that Atheists can't have morality would have been very relevant 60 years ago. With the likes of Nietzsche and Marx, and Bentham and Mill and the huge plethora of moral philosophers all coming out with their own system of ethics.
Atheist were at the forefront of several ideas which might seem atrocious to today's standards, such as eugenics and forced sterilization.

Most atheist have just decided to become humanitarians, but at the turn of the century this was far from the case.

Thoughts?

[Image: son-i-am-disappoint.jpg]

I expect this crap out of PJ and Heywood but I really thought you were better than this.

I was just wondering what peoples thoughts were on the fact that it seems turn of the century secular ethics were all over the place. At least that is the way it seems to me. To be fair I have only taken a single ethics course that dealt with modern philosophers and even then half the time was spent on Aristotle. But I have read several selections from my history source book that included "The White Man's Burden" By Joseph Chambelain (who to be fair was Unitarian), Marx, excerpts from Nietzsche's superman and anti-Christ, a piece about social Darwinism. So There is definitely something to be said for the dangers of the radical anti-theist movements of the turn of the century. I am not arguing whether atheists can be moral or not,. Of course they can, it's idiotic to think otherwise. But I just feel the question would not have felt so cut and dry during the turn of the century.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 03:44 AM
RE: Morality and Atheism
(09-12-2013 11:46 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 11:29 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Well that would be Confucius then, wouldn't it.

Nope but it was a contemporary of his. Try the Buddha.

Buddha was a Hindu. You cheated I want a do over.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 03:55 AM
RE: Morality and Atheism
(10-12-2013 03:44 AM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Buddha was a Hindu.
Citation needed.

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 03:58 AM
RE: Morality and Atheism
(10-12-2013 12:42 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 11:28 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Although I doubt Hitler's Catholicity,

Oh, really? Let's see what Hitler himself said about the matter: “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.” Looks pretty convincing to me.


Quote:the fact remains that even if Hitler was a Catholic, he was also significantly opposed by Catholics.

Oh, really?

[Image: bonhoeffer_hitler-1.jpg]

[Image: Hitler%20and%20church%202.jpg]

[Image: hitler4.jpg]

[Image: priests_salute_hitler.jpg]


Quote:This is why the Reichs Concordat was such a big deal. The Vatican attempted to ensure rights for the Catholic Church in Germany in exchange for the silence of the Clergy. One of the main reasons there was a large anti-Hitler movement amongst Catholics was because of his eugenics program.
Which included the extermination of Jews, which the catholic church looked the other way for.

Like I said that was what was important about the reichs concordat. It bought the silence of the catholic church. It got the church to look the other way. If the Catholic Church was not a major opponent of Hitler then the concordat would be meaningless. Yet it always seems to come up in the list of Catholic atrocities.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: