Morality vs. Legalism
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18-08-2015, 01:00 AM
RE: Morality vs. Legalism
(03-08-2015 01:33 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Any moron can observe and follow laws - as they're spelled out explicitly.
`
Except for the tax code.

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18-08-2015, 07:30 AM
RE: Morality vs. Legalism
(18-08-2015 01:00 AM)f stop Wrote:  
(03-08-2015 01:33 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Any moron can observe and follow laws - as they're spelled out explicitly.
`
Except for the tax code.

That's a standard deduction. Consider

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-08-2015, 08:28 AM
RE: Morality vs. Legalism
(17-08-2015 01:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-08-2015 12:44 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I would then ask all three of you, "What are your scriptures?" That is, what are your objective sets of ethics and morals, and where do they derive from? Natural law informs us that some species may eat their mates or offspring...

We don't have any scriptures and morality is subjective.

Quote:My beliefs are of course subjective, but my moral code isn't because I feel like it is. I have a book of statutes, codes, principles and etc. touching morality. Of course, atheists love to complain about holy scripture rather than attempting to justify where there so-called objective morals come from. Well, from where do yours come?

Your book has some really fucked up statutes, codes, principles, etc. in it.

("and etc." is incorrect. "etc." is the abbreviation of "et cetera", Latin for "and all the rest")

1. Etc. does indeed mean "all the rest". There are statutes, codes, principles... etc. includes proverbs regarding morality, prayers regarding morality, etc. as yet again you critique the Bible while clearly knowing only brief snippets of it, likely seen on leading skeptical websites.

2. If morality is subjective, what gives you (or the other five who replied here) the right to condemn biblical morality. I note you skipped over my point (the natural world informs us that other species eat their young) to condemn the God who condemns human sin.

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18-08-2015, 08:33 AM
RE: Morality vs. Legalism
(18-08-2015 08:28 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(17-08-2015 01:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  We don't have any scriptures and morality is subjective.


Your book has some really fucked up statutes, codes, principles, etc. in it.

("and etc." is incorrect. "etc." is the abbreviation of "et cetera", Latin for "and all the rest")

1. Etc. does indeed mean "all the rest". There are statutes, codes, principles... etc. includes proverbs regarding morality, prayers regarding morality, etc. as yet again you critique the Bible while clearly knowing only brief snippets of it, likely seen on leading skeptical websites.

I've read the entire Bible.

Quote:2. If morality is subjective, what gives you (or the other five who replied here) the right to condemn biblical morality. I note you skipped over my point (the natural world informs us that other species eat their young) to condemn the God who condemns human sin.

The natural world does not dictate our morality, nor should the Bible.

Because morality is subjective, my opinion that the Bible contains some fucked up moral rules is valid. Your mileage may vary.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-08-2015, 08:33 AM
RE: Morality vs. Legalism
(18-08-2015 08:28 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  2. If morality is subjective, what gives you (or the other five who replied here) the right to condemn biblical morality.
Ah, so you'd like to kill babies too? To mercilessly slaughter the enemies of the Lord? And best of all to call it *good* and *right*. 'Cos that's biblical morality. Oh yeah, let's not forget girls being forced by law to either be stoned to death or marry their rapist.

Quote:I note you skipped over my point (the natural world informs us that other species eat their young) to condemn the God who condemns human sin.
What the fuck does this even mean? Because other animals eat their young anything goes? What the fuck?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-08-2015, 11:10 AM
RE: Morality vs. Legalism
(18-08-2015 08:33 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 08:28 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  2. If morality is subjective, what gives you (or the other five who replied here) the right to condemn biblical morality.
...
I note you skipped over my point (the natural world informs us that other species eat their young) to condemn the God who condemns human sin.

What the fuck does this even mean? Because other animals eat their young anything goes? What the fuck?

Aaaaaaaaaand this is why Christians (and related religionists) tend to scare the crap out of me.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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18-08-2015, 11:25 AM
RE: Morality vs. Legalism
(18-08-2015 08:28 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If morality is subjective, what gives you (or the other five who replied here) the right to condemn biblical morality.

Morality is subjective. Therefore, we are allowed to have - and voice - our own opinions on the subject.

This is not complicated.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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18-08-2015, 02:24 PM
RE: Morality vs. Legalism
(18-08-2015 08:28 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If morality is subjective, what gives you (or the other five who replied here) the right to condemn biblical morality.
Morality is merely an ill defined, incomplete concept.
It's the idea that there are actions/choices which are right and wrong (for whatever reason).

Who is it that gets to decide what is right and wrong?
- The government does regarding law (and in turn this may have various degrees of influence from the members of society) but this is a coercive law so doesn't entirely fit the criteria of morality.
- Each individual does regarding their own decision making and the way they go about their own lives. Although this is a personal (how am I going to conduct myself) approach to navigating ones own life rather than a claim to know how others should conduct themselves. So it doesn't entirely fit the criteria of morality because it doesn't include normatives.
- Organisations (such as religious ones) claim to know (Divinely inspired? Yeah, right!) morality rules and preach these to those faithful (who are gullible enough to listen and pay tithes for the privilege). Some individuals choose to take on these "morals" as their own rather than to decide for themselves how to conduct themselves. These people feel the need for rules and a rule giver and are comfortable as an adult being in a dependent relationship (dependent on their religious leaders).

- Some individuals then aggressively via force or ostracising/shaming others look to get other people to conform to their own moral beliefs. (religion is big on this)
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18-08-2015, 02:31 PM
RE: Morality vs. Legalism
(18-08-2015 01:00 AM)f stop Wrote:  
(03-08-2015 01:33 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Any moron can observe and follow laws - as they're spelled out explicitly.
`
Except for the tax code.

That's why I recently converted to the beliefs of Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption, so that I may learn how to better avoid pesky tax laws. Thumbsup
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19-08-2015, 02:10 PM
RE: Morality vs. Legalism
(18-08-2015 08:33 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 08:28 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  1. Etc. does indeed mean "all the rest". There are statutes, codes, principles... etc. includes proverbs regarding morality, prayers regarding morality, etc. as yet again you critique the Bible while clearly knowing only brief snippets of it, likely seen on leading skeptical websites.

I've read the entire Bible.

Quote:2. If morality is subjective, what gives you (or the other five who replied here) the right to condemn biblical morality. I note you skipped over my point (the natural world informs us that other species eat their young) to condemn the God who condemns human sin.

The natural world does not dictate our morality, nor should the Bible.

Because morality is subjective, my opinion that the Bible contains some fucked up moral rules is valid. Your mileage may vary.

1. Read it again. Add prayer this time.

2. Where did you learn morality is subjective? Do you condone sexual rape, for any reason, under any circumstance? While there are complex moral questions in this world, on the essentials, even you and I can agree.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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