Morally Justifiable.
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23-02-2015, 10:00 PM
RE: Morally Justifiable.
(23-02-2015 09:51 PM)natachan Wrote:  
Shadow Fox Wrote:2. Theft is good under the right conditions and depending on the item. Let's say that a small and very violent country ran by a vicious dictator, bent on wiping all life out on the planet if they can. They acquired plans to build nuclear bombs and their soldiers are transporting the plans to a factory to set up making bombs...it is perfectly good to steal said plans from them by any means necessary.


I'd like to nitpick this a bit. I don't see this as theft, so much as I see it as an act of self-defense. A vicious dictator has instigated physical force and intends to commit more. The moral action in this case is retaliation and protection. The argument could be made that once the threat of physical force has been made, and once the first act has been committed, that party has forfeited certain rights. We do not condemn a man who takes a gun or knife away from a mugger. Why is this different? The person/agent has forfeited their right to that piece of property the instant they intend to use that object for harm.

Quote: Or, if you steal stolen goods from someone who stole them in order to return them to the people who the other thief originally stole them from. OR stealing money from a drug/crime lord.....oh...wait...no...that is not moral or immoral...its just plain stupid.

On this point I would say that a thief does not gain ownership of the object simply by stealing it. They gain possession of it, and that's a very different concept. I might lend you a pencil say, but I still own that pencil. The confiscation of stolen property from a thief is therefore not theft in the same way. As to the drug lord.... eh. That's just dumb.

Quote:3. For some unforeseen reason that all life on the entire planet is going to be wiped out, or if the fate of the human species survival depends on that man/woman being raped is somehow in some illogical way I cannot think of the only way to make it happen...go for it...otherwise...never

I'm somewhat convinced this is satirical. Even in said situation I would still not say it is morally permissible strictly speaking. It might be forgivable, but that doesn't remove moral culpability. The act is still wrong, even if it is forgivable. Essentially that person becomes a human sacrifice, and that idea is revolting. Honestly if humanity comes to the point where such things are demanded I say it deserves to fade into oblivion.

This also brings up an interesting question I was wondering about that was somewhat related. If a person has an ability that others don't, are they morally obligated to use it? Let's say a man has a gift for mathematics and numbers, but finds their study dull and tedious. Does his gift obligate him to use his abilities, especially since they could give so much aid? Or is he under no obligation?
hmm.. Good points. The third one there I don't really agree with myself, but the point I think is to actually "try" and make a justification for it. Which there is none really, but it was the best I could really think of.

Good points on everything else.


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23-02-2015, 10:09 PM
RE: Morally Justifiable.
(20-02-2015 10:43 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 11:04 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  I want to have an experiment in thought...... There are many things considered morally wrong in our society. I would like each of you, to try and find, in your opinion, a justifiable situation for each of the 3 things i am about to list.

1: Murder. Evil_monster

2: Theft Evil_monster

3: Rape (this one is a tough for me.) Evil_monster

Note: I don't endorse any of the 3 things i just listed.

Ill be very interested in what you guys come up with, CIAO!!

Sure:

1: Murder, when I want to.

2: Theft, when I want to.

3: Rape, when I want to.

I guess it's a good thing for all my would be victims, that I don't really want to do these things.

Or, for 1 and 2, that good "born agains" don't think it's justified and send hundreds of thousands of kids off to do just that in a "just war" like Dubya and his cronies did in Iraq. Yeah, those religious morals keep the world REAL safe, don't they.

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27-02-2015, 07:40 AM
RE: Morally Justifiable.
Here goes:

Murder: Someone is threatening to kill your family and the threat actually seems very credible. The police are no help and you are seriously worried.

Theft: You family is starving and you have no money, so you steal a loaf of bread.

Rape: You are kidnapped by a psychopath along with whoever is most dear to you and a random stranger. You kidnapper is going to torture your loved one until you rape the random stranger (assume the random stranger is totally unwilling, even to save your loved one).


The first two are easy, the third is the only one not easily justifiable.

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11-03-2015, 04:44 AM
RE: Morally Justifiable.
1. Murder:
Let's say a mad gunman starts shooting innocent people. You take him down.
2. Theft
Did anyone see Les miserables? Though it's debatable, if the person who got stolen from isn't absolutely broke because of it, I think the situation in the musical is enough.
3. Rape
In old days, rape was also used as a means of torture. Not that it's ok, but that could be a reason- according to different views.
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11-03-2015, 05:50 AM
RE: Morally Justifiable.
(19-02-2015 11:04 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  I want to have an experiment in thought...... There are many things considered morally wrong in our society. I would like each of you, to try and find, in your opinion, a justifiable situation for each of the 3 things i am about to list.

1: Murder. Evil_monster

2: Theft Evil_monster

3: Rape (this one is a tough for me.) Evil_monster

Note: I don't endorse any of the 3 things i just listed.

Ill be very interested in what you guys come up with, CIAO!!


Simple, anything can be justified. However not all justifiable contexts are applicable, attainable, or reasonable. But seeing as how this is a thought experiment where our imaginations are left unchecked, it's a rather easy exercise.


Imagine yourself kidnapped by Darth Vader, and you find yourself aboard the Death Star. He informs you that unless you comply with his demands, he will use the power of that space station to destroy your home planet. He informs you, in no uncertain terms, that any attempt to deviate from his explicit instructions (like killing yourself) will result in your failure and the immediate destruction of the your home world.


When placed in such an untenable position, what can't be justified? What is a single murder in comparison to the perpetuation of life on an entire planet? A single theft? A single rape? At this point, the more interesting question would be how much would be too much? Just how much could be justified at the alter of a few billion lives?

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14-03-2015, 01:24 PM
RE: Morally Justifiable.
What is Morality beyond a social construct. Nothing is innately wrong with an action. We just give them certain values.

Just because you are hurting others, does not mean it is moral or not (and by extension justifiable or unjustifiable). It just means you are causing them a degree of pain.

Also I'm curious why rape is being held above murder in the realms of justifiability.

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20-04-2015, 11:17 AM
RE: Morally Justifiable.
(19-02-2015 11:04 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  I want to have an experiment in thought...... There are many things considered morally wrong in our society. I would like each of you, to try and find, in your opinion, a justifiable situation for each of the 3 things i am about to list.

1: Murder. Evil_monster

2: Theft Evil_monster

3: Rape (this one is a tough for me.) Evil_monster

Note: I don't endorse any of the 3 things i just listed.

Ill be very interested in what you guys come up with, CIAO!!

Justification depends on one morals? If so all of above can be justified, even if justification would be flimsy or plain stupid.
But I understand it is about my opinion based on my values:
I think I could not justify the murder - one can say self defence which while valid do not absolve of guilt. No one should take live of another human being, but I say that while I'm safe.
Theft - standard justification would be medicine for sick children or something like that and I think I would be able to forgive myself for doing this.
Rape - no justification, much as with murder. Even murder can be justified - self defence - rape is just sick.

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20-04-2015, 01:33 PM
RE: Morally Justifiable.
(19-02-2015 11:04 PM)ResistenceXD0001 Wrote:  I want to have an experiment in thought...... There are many things considered morally wrong in our society. I would like each of you, to try and find, in your opinion, a justifiable situation for each of the 3 things i am about to list.
What does morality mean and how do we classify something as being morally justifiable? What criteria must it meet?
Unless these things are laid down then its just opinions.
Is murder morally justifiable?
Person A says "No, never", person B says "sure"

Both people are correct of course. But who knows what the hell they are talking about when they judge something as being morally justifiable or morally unjustified?
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