Morals, Christianity, Atheism
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19-11-2014, 01:26 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
"Fun questions" from The Q:

Does prison population indicate that atheists are more moral than others or just less likely to be caught/more devious when committing crimes? (Okay, that's not really a question worth answering, but it is "fun"!) so let's try again:

If the atheists on this forum say that atheists are more moral/ethical than others, are they admitting that moral crimes deserve punishment/incarceration? You must be doing so because you are saying that immoral people are being imprisoned.

And saying that moral crimes deserve punishment opens a great door to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus died and rose to save people from punishment for moral crimes.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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19-11-2014, 01:28 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 01:26 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  "Fun questions" from The Q:

Does prison population indicate that atheists are more moral than others or just less likely to be caught/more devious when committing crimes? (Okay, that's not really a question worth answering, but it is "fun"!) so let's try again:

If the atheists on this forum say that atheists are more moral/ethical than others, are they admitting that moral crimes deserve punishment/incarceration? You must be doing so because you are saying that immoral people are being imprisoned.

And saying that moral crimes deserve punishment opens a great door to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus died and rose to save people from punishment for moral crimes.

People are in prison for breaking civil law. Those laws may or may not be moral, but that is of no consequence as to why they are in prison.
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19-11-2014, 01:32 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 01:26 PM)Machias Wrote:  Creating a new life does not obligate the father? How about the mother?

Nope and nope.

Quote:If you think either is not obligated to care for the child, you have your head very, very far up your ass.

That's the belief in the belief in obligation. Myself? I think there are better reasons for us to care for our children than made up ones.
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19-11-2014, 01:41 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 01:26 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  deserve

Oh god! There is another one just as bad as obligation. You going for longest thread ever?
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19-11-2014, 01:44 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 01:26 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  "Fun questions" from The Q:

Does prison population indicate that atheists are more moral than others or just less likely to be caught/more devious when committing crimes? (Okay, that's not really a question worth answering, but it is "fun"!) so let's try again:

If the atheists on this forum say that atheists are more moral/ethical than others, are they admitting that moral crimes deserve punishment/incarceration? You must be doing so because you are saying that immoral people are being imprisoned.

And saying that moral crimes deserve punishment opens a great door to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus died and rose to save people from punishment for moral crimes.

There is a need for punishment for crimes. Take your stupid free pass nonsense and return to your corner of crazytown!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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19-11-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 01:19 PM)TreeSapNest Wrote:  May my children rejoice in knowing that I care for them, not out of some make-believe obligation to do so, but because I care for them. :-)

Being obligated to do something does not mean that you can't also want to do it. Caring for your children because you love them and caring for them because you are morally obligated to and caring for them because you are legally obligated to are not mutually exclusive options. Theists may add caring for their children because they believe god told them that they are obligated to do so.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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19-11-2014, 01:53 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 01:48 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Being obligated to do something does not mean that you can't also want to do it. Caring for your children because you love them and caring for them because you are morally obligated to and caring for them because you are legally obligated to are not mutually exclusive options. Theists may add caring for their children because they believe god told them that they are obligated to do so.

Agreed. I didn't mean to imply anyone wasn't loving their children.
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19-11-2014, 01:56 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 01:48 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Being obligated to do something does not mean that you can't also want to do it. Caring for your children because you love them and caring for them because you are morally obligated to and caring for them because you are legally obligated to are not mutually exclusive options. Theists may add caring for their children because they believe god told them that they are obligated to do so.

While theists believe they are obligated by God to do so, why do atheists believe they are obligated to care for them?

Though Tree cares for his children, he doesn't see this as an obligation. What is it that he is missing that you are in possession of, to recognize that he in fact is obligated to care?
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19-11-2014, 02:12 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 11:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-11-2014 11:14 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  1.) They are considered to be nonexistent until you demonstrate that your claims are true.


Well if you think moral obligations are non-existent, then I have no further argument. I'm only interested in those that believe they do exist.

First off Nice straw man asshole, but I said the claims you make, of which I went out of my way to list, are not valid until you demonstrate them to be so.
Secondly you asked me my view on the subject of moral obligations and I told you to go fuck yourself until you met your burden of proof, and now instead of doing that you are attempting to tell me what my own view is. Clearly along with your moral bankruptcy you don't have a moral obligation to be honest. Drinking Beverage

I made no comment at all on if moral obligations exist or not. I pulled your bullshit justifications for believing apart and demanded that you prove your dumb cunt claims. Which you have not done. Which you have REPEATED not done, and tried to accuse us of rape for telling you to do so. Cretin.

As for your post proceeding the one I quoted That is not a phrase that can only be claimed by a believer. I told you you had the burden of proof to demonstrate that claim is accurate. You have been shifting the goal posts, and obfuscating your responsibilities since then.

You made the claim only a believer can hold the view that moral obligations exist. You don't explain or demonstrate this claim. You then go on to make a claim that you physically can not know, a claim that requires you to know the entire working of every mind that claims it. You have not demonstrated that either.

You are claiming victory and you have not even left the starting line, it might appear to you that that you have left us all in the dust but that's only because you are running in reverse you dumbass. You make a claim, you don't demonstrate it at all. You then give a bullshit word salad explanation for where you think it comes from and what it is THEN you say you are not actually claiming anything so you don't have to prove anything.
Any person who has to spend as much time as you do fighting to find reasons to not have to meet their burden of proof and prove their claims has nothing worth saying at all.

To disprove your original claim that only a believer can claim moral obligations are real all a person has to do is a) not believe and b) claim they are real. That's it, because the rest of your fucking claim is dismissed cause you don't know what is in other peoples minds. If I was to claim that "moral obligations exist, because of pixies" that has as much a grounding in reality as your explanation which was basically "lolz magic and the universe and shit u guys" you absolute fuck wit.

Lastly if your going to insult someone don't use the exact same word they used to insult you, it makes it look like you can't even think of your own insults. Which would surprise no one at all. Drinking Beverage

Now demonstrate your shit bitch, I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence of a single thing you say. Then pop in the other thread you ran from me in and try backing up your shit there.
Really just prove one goddamn thing you claim.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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19-11-2014, 02:13 PM
RE: Morals, Christianity, Atheism
(19-11-2014 01:56 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  While theists believe they are obligated by God to do so, why do atheists believe they are obligated to care for them?

Though Tree cares for his children, he doesn't see this as an obligation. What is it that he is missing that you are in possession of, to recognize that he in fact is obligated to care?

This is probably futile but...

I can't speak for TreeSapNest so I do not know if he feels obligated or not, nor can I explain the reason he feels obligated or not. In my own case, I do not have children but hypothetically I would:
a. have a legal obligation defined by the state
b. have a moral obligation because I do not have the right to expect others to care for them in my place
c. love them and want to take care of them regardless of any legal or moral obligations that I may recognize

My moral obligation would not come from a deity but rather from my recognition of fair play and what it takes to create a society worth living in.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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